28-12-2004 06:22									#151
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Aeson Yah, wait on the exposed units. We can use MI to try for Leaders if we need all the Tanks taking Abilene. The MI will kill the barbs as well as a Tank, and are almost as sure to kill the exposed/hurt Lego Tanks too.

MI don't blitz. So definately not use all the tanks, or we won't have any chance at all

DeepO

	28-12-2004 06:24									#152
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 Yeah if the battle for Abilene was less than fortunate, we could even take a damaged tank to kill a barb and use arts to drop the exposed tanks to 1HP in a crunch.

we need 2 full healths to be certain of our chances. first attack has to be a Lego tank, with a full health. In case of no promotions, try our luck with the barbs first.

DeepO

	28-12-2004 06:24									#153
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I agree it would not make sense to use a leader for an army here, just covering all the bases.

	28-12-2004 06:25									#154
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okay, I'll go for a drink, and start on the first stacks of marines. We might not need to discuss this after all...

DeepO

	28-12-2004 06:29									#155
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Forgot that MI don't blitz... oops.

Take one of the 1/4 Transports first, empty, to make sure those two tiles are clear of Subs. We have plenty of extra room on board.

	28-12-2004 06:30									#156
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quote: Originally posted by DeepO we need 2 full healths to be certain of our chances. first attack has to be a Lego tank, with a full health. In case of no promotions, try our luck with the barbs first. DeepO

I did not quite follow this one, but that is ok. I do acknowledge that with less than 4/4 you could end up losing, no doubt.

If you go barb first to try to become elite, failing to get a promotion you go at the other barb. Now you should not lose any HP from those combats, but it is not a lock.

Then go for the exposed tank. If it is dropped to 1/4, it can be taken with a fair chance of success. Not a lock again.

This is only if you are in a pinch with no 4/4's left.

	28-12-2004 06:31									#157
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Definitely burn the Marines first... I do not believe that they will be of much use hereinafter.

	28-12-2004 06:31									#158
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Rock em DeepO.

	28-12-2004 06:35									#159
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A 3/4 or 2/4 against the Barbs would be good still. We wouldn't attack Lego's unit unless we got a promotion from the first attack, which would almost surely leave us at 4/5 or 3/5, which is good enough odds IMO to take out a 1 HP Tank in the open.

	28-12-2004 06:36									#160
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quote: Originally posted by Aeson Take one of the 1/4 Transports first, empty, to make sure those two tiles are clear of Subs. We have plenty of extra room on board.

Hum. You're right, but I already moved a 4/4... no subs though
It wouldn't have mattered, I guess, as we could have moved another one to compensate. We could move somewhere close to 80 marines with what we've got. Just takes a bit of chaining.

DeepO

	28-12-2004 06:39									#161
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 I did not quite follow this one, but that is ok. I do acknowledge that with less than 4/4 you could end up losing, no doubt. If you go barb first to try to become elite, failing to get a promotion you go at the other barb. Now you should not lose any HP from those combats, but it is not a lock. Then go for the exposed tank. If it is dropped to 1/4, it can be taken with a fair chance of success. Not a lock again. This is only if you are in a pinch with no 4/4's left.

the promblem is that if you do it like this, you only have 2 chances for promotions to elite, before taking on a Lego unit. By going for the Lego tank first, you get 3 chances... it doesn't make a lot of difference, as long as you keep the 1/4 tank as the last Lego tank to attack, so you can be sure you wait with that one for a possible elite.

The difference lays in the risk: in case the first attack against the Lego tank fails, you can still use another one. In case the second attack fails after you already took a barb, you lose a free shot for promotion. Tiny, I know.

DeepO

	28-12-2004 06:56									#162
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

movement continued
- transport from NI moves 21. No subs
- worker on NI 9 creates road.
- transports in NI loaded with marines on NI 9, and some closeby
- first transport moved.
- marine attacks 12/12 inf army in Abilene. Marine dies. Army 9/12.
- marine attacks 9/12 inf army in Abilene. Marine dies. Army promotes to 10/13.
- marine attacks 10/13 inf army in Abilene. Marine dies. Army 9/13.
- marine attacks 9/13 inf army in Abilene. Marine dies. Army 9/13.
- marine attacks 9/13 inf army in Abilene. Marine dies. Army 7/13.
- marine attacks 7/13 inf army in Abilene. Marine dies. Army 5/13.
- marine attacks 5/13 inf army in Abilene. Marine dies. Army 5/13.
- marine attacks 5/13 inf army in Abilene. Marine dies. Army 3/13.
- marine attacks inf in Abilene. Inf killed. Marine 1/4.

- second transport from NI moved 12.
- marine attacks inf in Abilene. Marine dies. Inf promotes to 3/5
- marine attacks inf in Abilene. Marine dies. Inf 1/4
- marine attacks inf in Abilene. Marine dies. Inf 1/4
- marine attacks inf in Abilene. Marine dies. Inf 2/4
- marine attacks inf in Abilene. Marine dies. Inf 3/4
- marine attacks inf in Abilene. Inf killed . Marine 2/4.
- marine attacks inf in Abilene. Marine dies. Inf promotes to 3/5
- marine attacks inf in Abilene. Marine dies. Inf 3/4

- 3rd transport moved
- marine attacks inf in Abilene. Marine dies. Inf 3/4
- marine attacks inf in Abilene. Marine dies. Inf promotes to 4/5
- marine attacks inf in Abilene. Marine dies. Inf 4/4
- marine attacks inf in Abilene. Marine dies. Inf promotes to 5/5
- marine attacks 5/5 inf in Abilene. Marine dies. Inf 4/5
- marine attacks inf in Abilene. Marine dies. Inf 2/4
- marine attacks inf in Abilene. Marine dies. Inf 2/4
- marine attacks inf in Abilene. Marine dies. Inf 1/4

I need to load a couple of transports, so the rest is coming.

DeepO

	28-12-2004 07:00									#163
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Not to belabor the point, but I miss how I get three chances. In any run at it, the unit chosen must be promoted on the first battle or it just goes home.

So we have two more or less free shots, one for each barb. After that you have as many shots as you have enemy units and attackers to hit them.

Unless you are saying there is a difference in probablities for promotions when going for barbs and non barbs?

Last edited by vmxa1 on 28-12-2004 at 07:06

	28-12-2004 07:08									#164
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Well first boat load did well.

	28-12-2004 07:09									#165
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movement continued
- moved 1/4 transport into NI.
- loaded with 2 'loose' marines and 6 NI ones.
- moved next to Abilene.
- marine attacks inf in Abilene. Marine dies. Inf 3/4
- marine attacks inf in Abilene. Marine dies. Inf 4/4
- marine attacks inf in Abilene. Marine dies. Inf promotes to 5/5
- marine attacks 5/5 inf in Abilene. Marine dies. Inf 4/5
- marine attacks inf in Abilene. Marine dies. Inf 3/4
- marine attacks inf in Abilene. Marine dies. Inf 3/4
- marine attacks inf in Abilene. Marine dies. Inf 3/4
- marine attacks inf in Abilene. Marine dies. Inf 3/4

a bit of a question now. I still have 14 marines to load, and use (one of those a 3/4). I can chain those with the available transports, leaving the remaining 4 transports to move for something else. It would expose 4 transports in the open.
Or, I can use the 3/4 near NI, making sure 2 more transports are safe in NI.
Or, I can use another 4/4 transport as well, only leaving that one exposed.

I prefer the 3rd option, so no chaining. if we use the 1/4 TR for that, it will be the only one left in the open.

I'll start on using the 3/4 now, and see if anyone comments before I need to load the next one. If no comments, it's the 3/4.

DeepO

	28-12-2004 07:11									#166
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It works best hitting the Barb Warriors first.

Attack Barb1 with Tank1
If Tank1 Promoted, attack Lego1 with Tank1
Else Attack Barb2 with Tank2
If Tank2 Promoted, attack Lego1 with Tank2
Else Attack Lego 1 with Tank3
If Tank3 Promoted, attack Lego2 with Tank3
Else Attack Lego2 with Tank4
If Tank4 Promoted, attack Lego3 with Tank4
Else Attack Lego3 with Tank with highest HP left from Tank 1-4.

	28-12-2004 07:13									#167
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 Not to belabor the point, but I miss how I get three chances. In any run at it, the unit chosen must be promoted on the first battle or it just goes home. So we have two more or less free shots, one for each barb. After that you have as many shots as you have enemy units and attackers to hit them. Unless you are saying there is a difference in probablities for promotions when going for barbs and non barbs?

Come to think on this, we have 4 chances of an elite promotion...

In any of the following, if we get a promotion we attack the 1/4 tank.

1. we use a tank to attack the 4/4 Lego Tank.
2. we use a tank to attack one of the barbs. (should we get very lucky and have to elites, we need two Legos left for 2 GL chances)
3. we attack the 2/4 tanks
4. we attack the last barb.

So, 4 chances for promotions, but we need 4 tanks as well.

DeepO

	28-12-2004 07:14									#168
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I think we can keep Abilene, so we could move any Transports into it for safety. Might as well keep it and siphon off pop with starvation (specialists) and Settler/Worker builds. We'll definitely have enough units in it to prevent a flip... especially since Lego won't have a Palace and I think flips are impossible without a Palace.

	28-12-2004 07:16									#169
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That is what I think I was saying. The only other thing I tossed in was that we could use the arties we have to soften things up for any elite that is attacking, if it has to face any unit with more than 1 HP.

Once you are down to the last few exposed tanks, you can hit them with arties anyway to soften them for even non elites.


Edit this was in supppose to be after Aesons post on how to run it.

	28-12-2004 07:16									#170
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hmmm... I don't know if there is much difference between our 2 methods. The only reason for going for the 4/4 first, is that if it fails (there is a good chance on this), we have the best tanks left for the other attacks.

I don't know... it's getting late, I don't see it so clearly anymore.

DeepO

	28-12-2004 07:18									#171
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Ah, of course... when keeping Abilene, we've got a safe harbor.

And no, no chance of flipping without a capital.

DeepO

	28-12-2004 07:19									#172
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arties would be best used on the infs, though. We can lose tanks on those much more easily than on (damaged) Lego tanks.

DeepO

	28-12-2004 07:19									#173
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No Harbor in the safe harbor... but hopefully a Barracks!

	28-12-2004 07:20									#174
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quote: Originally posted by DeepO hmmm... I don't know if there is much difference between our 2 methods. The only reason for going for the 4/4 first, is that if it fails (there is a good chance on this), we have the best tanks left for the other attacks. I don't know... it's getting late, I don't see it so clearly anymore. DeepO

Not to worry it is only an academic exorcise anyway. No matter how you do it we need to get luck to get a leader.

	28-12-2004 07:23									#175
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Sometimes this movement AI is just plain old silly. I just moved 3 marines automatically, without paying too much attention where they went. That stupid 1/3 tank took 3 shots on them... one marine is now 2/4, another 3/4.

Oh well. Stupid mistake. If it means we'll lose a marine we shouldn't have, I apologize.

DeepO

	28-12-2004 07:24									#176
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quote: Originally posted by DeepO arties would be best used on the infs, though. We can lose tanks on those much more easily than on (damaged) Lego tanks. DeepO

True it is more likely to lose vs forted inf in the city, it comes down to how much value you put on trying to get the leaders. We may not even have to bombard the tanks, but I would if I had an elite to try.

It is just one hp from either the infanty or the tank. Of course you could miss in either case.

	28-12-2004 07:25									#177
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Just don't use the 2/4 or 3/4s to attack anything other than an Elite.

	28-12-2004 07:27									#178
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by DeepO Sometimes this movement AI is just plain old silly. I just moved 3 marines automatically, without paying too much attention where they went. That stupid 1/3 tank took 3 shots on them... one marine is now 2/4, another 3/4. Oh well. Stupid mistake. If it means we'll lose a marine we shouldn't have, I apologize. DeepO

That will look good on the battle report. A little light hearted humor. I have done the same thing with some half dead calv getting a ZoC shot off when I did not have to pass that close in the first place.

	28-12-2004 07:32									#179
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Aeson Just don't use the 2/4 or 3/4s to attack anything other than an Elite.

hum... I really should get some sleep first... or at least check here more often.

I just used the first one, a 2/4, on a vet ... and of course it should have been saved.

Okay, maybe it's time to take a break first. But only 13 more marines remain...

DeepO

	28-12-2004 07:40									#180
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movement continued
3/4 TR moved into NI

- 3 marines moved into NI (after the ZoC bombard, see above)
- 3/4 marine also moved.
- every marine including the wounded loaded into transports.
- moved the transports near Abilene.
- 2/4 marine attacks inf. Marine dies. inf 3/4.
- marine attacks inf. Inf killed. Marine 1/4.
- marine attacks inf. Marine dies. Inf 1/4.
- marine attacks inf. Marine dies. Inf 2/4.
- marine attacks inf. Marine dies. Inf 3/4.
- marine attacks inf. Marine dies. Inf 2/4.
- marine attacks inf. Marine dies. Inf 1/4.
- marine attacks inf. Marine dies. Inf 2/4.
- marine attacks inf. Marine dies. Inf 2/4.
- 3/4 marine attacks 4/5 inf. Marine dies. Inf 3/5.
- 3/4 marine attacks 4/5 inf. Marine dies. Inf 2/5.
- marine attacks 4/5 inf. Marine dies. Inf 3/5.

Okay. At this point, 3/4 infs start to show. I still have 2 marines left (should have been 2 in case the ZoC mess hadn't occured). I'm saving those for elites later on, and starting on the tanks.

DeepO