28-12-2004 08:30									#211
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just peace of mind, an inclination on where they are steaming, if anywhere.

probably hanging out at one of the poles. It might take a wide net to catch them now.

What do they have left?

	28-12-2004 08:30									#212
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quote: Originally posted by asleepathewheel Great job taking out that last city. What happens now with lego, I've never been reduced to a settler on a transport (or elsewhere)

Who has been reduced to even a 1-city empire before?

quote: Perpetual anarchy so as not to lose units?

that's one thing, I guess. They have 3 settlers, but no place to land them... they will probably never get a chance of having another city.

Or, Vox or ND gives them one, which is of course still an option.

DeepO

	28-12-2004 08:31									#213
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I just wanted to see how much less the plans would have cost. I had no idea that we wouldn't be able to steal the plans once they lost their last city.

	28-12-2004 08:32									#214
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I guess it depends on where the settlers are. If they are all in transports or in Vox.

	28-12-2004 08:32									#215
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quote: Originally posted by Aeson I think for right now we can send back 8 Infantry on the chain. I wouldn't feel good about loading any units into Transports and keeping them there for a turn right now. We don't have naval superiority yet.

I would rather move a couple of MI over, if it's all the same for you. We do not have a decent defense on Stormia either... we should keep one covering NI, of course.

DeepO

	28-12-2004 08:34									#216
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Are we going to hit the N Lego stack? We might need the MI there even with 21 Tanks. Those Inf are fortified on a Hill, so our Tanks have slightly less than 50% in each fight. It might be pretty close with just Tanks... plus we could use 4 Tanks for the MGL tries.

	28-12-2004 08:35									#217
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quote: Originally posted by Aeson Actually, it was the ZOC. I didn't get it, so I was off by 3 rolls.

6 rolls... the marines passed that bloody tank twice. It hit 3 out of 6 times, which is not bad at all for ZoC.

I think I can recreate that in case it was needed. I simply stack moved the Southern most of the 3 marines to the next one, after that the 2 to the Northern most one, and after that stack moved the three of them to NI. It happened on that last move.

DeepO

	28-12-2004 08:36									#218
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It would seem to be dangerous for ND or surely for Vox to offer a safe haven.

ND may be able to get away with, Vox could be asking for an attack doing that.

If they could reach any one of us, then the settlers could be used to reach more territory for attacking.

	28-12-2004 08:38									#219
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quote: Originally posted by DeepO I would rather move a couple of MI over, if it's all the same for you. We do not have a decent defense on Stormia either... we should keep one covering NI, of course. DeepO

If you move inf, you can upgrade them at arrival to MI and then we MI's in both places.

	28-12-2004 08:39									#220
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quote: Originally posted by Aeson I just wanted to see how much less the plans would have cost. I had no idea that we wouldn't be able to steal the plans once they lost their last city.

I should have known. I ran into this a couple of times before in SP games... if you take out an AI, while he still has a settler somewhere on the move, he won't die. But, all the ship movements stop, and it can be very hard to track that one ship down, especially on larger maps. That's about the only sitiuation where I tried to steal maps... and it never works. A bit frustrating. Normally, you can just sue for peace, but if you're fast, the 5 turns haven't passed yet, leaving you with ww and unhappy foreign citizens for a couple of turns.

DeepO

	28-12-2004 08:40									#221
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 I guess it depends on where the settlers are. If they are all in transports or in Vox.

well... we established they can't be in Vox. They can be next turn, though.

Can you close a RoP without cities? you need embassies for this, right?

DeepO

	28-12-2004 08:42									#222
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quote: Originally posted by Aeson Are we going to hit the N Lego stack? We might need the MI there even with 21 Tanks. Those Inf are fortified on a Hill, so our Tanks have slightly less than 50% in each fight. It might be pretty close with just Tanks... plus we could use 4 Tanks for the MGL tries.

Let's wait with chaining any units back home until after we dealt with the N... if we are going to deal with them.

I think we should. Every unit we destroy, means another less chance for GoW to get a GL. They have elites, and don't need to blitz...

DeepO

	28-12-2004 08:43									#223
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So we have 0 WW issues?

When are we planning on exiting Mobilization?

	28-12-2004 08:46									#224
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 It would seem to be dangerous for ND or surely for Vox to offer a safe haven. ND may be able to get away with, Vox could be asking for an attack doing that.

I agree. And both should know that. However, Vox might be required by contract to do it: they were offered a safe haven, who knows what the conditions were.

quote: If they could reach any one of us, then the settlers could be used to reach more territory for attacking.

Without marines, those settlers will never create a city. Or at least not on their own. I can see a scenario where Lego sides with e.g. ND, to simulatenously attack either us or GoW. In that case, they will have plenty of infs and arties to ensure they can pluck down 1 city. It won't help them in the attack, though. They have a total of 7 tanks. Try take a city defended with MIs with that.

DeepO

	28-12-2004 08:47									#225
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 If you move inf, you can upgrade them at arrival to MI and then we MI's in both places.

True... forgot about that. We're looking at upgrading all our defenders anyway, including our rifles.

DeepO

	28-12-2004 08:52									#226
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quote: Originally posted by asleepathewheel So we have 0 WW issues?

Yes... one exception: something like 7 of the 11 citizens of Abilene are unhappy because we're at war with Lego.

quote: When are we planning on exiting Mobilization?

What I'm concerned: asap. We will need 1 turn to set it up, though, in case we need a fake war for it. Best candidate is RP (losing the lux from GoW would be costly), but they need time to brace for the lack of lux.

I think that before ending this turn, we need to have some diplomatic things going on. If Lego is willing to accept peace, or if they give up, we don't need fake wars. Otherwise, we need to convince the public forum we are entitled to a fake war to stop the mobilization, and we better do this behind the screens before going public.

DeepO

	28-12-2004 08:58									#227
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message to RP, asking for that sunken transport position.

That's about it for me tonight. I'll leave my pc running, hopefully it won't crash in the mean time. I'm off to bed. The rest can wait another day

DeepO

	28-12-2004 08:59									#228
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We can stay in Mobilization for a little while longer at least. We want to get up to ~100 MI. We need Fighters and Bombers too. Plus we need to almost completely rebuild our navy.

	28-12-2004 08:59									#229
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Well who is going to oppose a fake war now? ND is the only one that should care. RP is not, We are not, GoW needs one too, Vox is it.

They would have to worry that the fake becomes a true war if they make a fuss. Lego we ignore if they are the only one opposed.

None of Legos ships can heal now, so between us and GoW we should be able to hunt them down. How many units will they be able to support, how much gold is left now?

	28-12-2004 09:01									#230
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They are in Anarchy so need nothing for support.

	28-12-2004 09:03									#231
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Final thing to consider for the night: we need to become active in our Vox diplomacy.

DeepO

	28-12-2004 09:03									#232
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I also feel we need a bit more of a build up to protect us and be prepared in case of another opportunity.

	28-12-2004 09:07									#233
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quote: Originally posted by Aeson We can stay in Mobilization for a little while longer at least. We want to get up to ~100 MI. We need Fighters and Bombers too. Plus we need to almost completely rebuild our navy.

Hmmm... yes and no. 100 MI is something we need, at least. But if we also want to have civil defenses, fighters, arties and tanks, and a navy, we simply can't afford it. We need banks, urgently. And some stock exchanges would be nice as well. We have spent everything to get here, we need that infrastructure badly. Not everywhere, not right now at least, but in our best commerce cities at least. and soon.

DeepO

	28-12-2004 09:10									#234
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 Well who is going to oppose a fake war now? ND is the only one that should care. RP is not, We are not, GoW needs one too, Vox is it.

True... but better to make sure this has been discussed before it comes to a vote. Telling Vox that in case they object, we will find the only other way (attacking them) just as good will make sure they comply...

quote: None of Legos ships can heal now, so between us and GoW we should be able to hunt them down. How many units will they be able to support, how much gold is left now?

0 gold. And nowhere to spend it either. No spies, no trades, nothing.

DeepO

	28-12-2004 09:12									#235
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You are also correct DeepO, if we are safe now. Otherwise troops are needed. In a couple of turns we can get out of MoB fair and square and then start some banks et al.

We dropped a ton of support cost with those marines. we should be able to get a few more cities up on Lego for a bit more free support.

Too bad we can't do everything, oh well.

Nice job go to bed. You need to keep your strength.

	28-12-2004 09:14									#236
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quote: Originally posted by Aeson They are in Anarchy so need nothing for support.

Yeah that was even mentioned and it still slipped my mind.

	28-12-2004 09:16									#237
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Just for fun, I counted. We currently have 2 banks... EotS and Bolderberg. Both Tempest and Hurricane, our 2 top commerce cities, don't have one.

We have no stock exchanges. A couple of our cities don't even have markets. unis we're a bit better off, but quite a few of the big cities don't have one (e.g. WoC, which even lacks a library)

Also, I take it that if you're talking about MIs, you are considering civil defenses everywhere as well. Whenever you put 3 defenders in a city, it pays off in upkeep to have a civil defense next. We have none. These can be built under mob, though.

DeepO

	28-12-2004 09:19									#238
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Civil Def could be useful, but I would have to be sure I am going to be attacked to invest that much.

Markets would be nice for the lux help as well.

	28-12-2004 09:20									#239
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 We dropped a ton of support cost with those marines. we should be able to get a few more cities up on Lego for a bit more free support.

not really, we gained something like 45 gpt. We're still losing 221 gpt...

Oh, what free support? This is republic under PTW... we don't get any

quote: Nice job go to bed. You need to keep your strength.

Yeah... see you tomorrow

DeepO

	28-12-2004 11:29									#240
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Good job, guys.

Lego's missing are sailing towards ND or us. If they sail towards us that means ND is coming, for Lego would stand no chance otherwise.

We live in interesting times. May our MIs prove up to it.