11-01-2005 10:53									#331
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I didn't say playoff experience was manditory. My point is that we really don't know how Atlanta will play in the playoffs. They could play at a higher level, same level, or lower level. The Rams we know play at a high level. Another thing about the Rams is that they changed the rules about how the defense can bump the recievers in the playoffs. It already helped the Rams beat Seattle. I don't think Atlanta can outscore the Rams if the Rams can do something different against their D than they did in the regular season. The Falcons blitzed them a lot. That leaves the recievers one on one. I don't know if they will be able to do that again. We'll see. One thing is for sure. Martz will have a diferent game plan.

	11-01-2005 10:58									#332
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quote: My point is that we really don't know how Atlanta will play in the playoffs.

Well, we could see how the Vick Falcons overachieved in 2002, when they were the first team to beat Green Bay IN Green Bay with the weather under 32 degrees.

quote: Another thing about the Rams is that they changed the rules about how the defense can bump the recievers in the playoffs. It already helped the Rams beat Seattle.

Yeah, and it helped the Rams to an 8-8 record!

	11-01-2005 11:27									#333
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Yeah, and it helped the Rams to an 8-8 record!

The only thing about 8-8 that matters is that when the Falcons lose, they are going to lose to an 8-8 team, just like Seattle did. The Rams went 8-8 for a lot of reasons. One is that Bulger missed two games. He's back now, and how! In our last two games we beat two teams with winning records. One of them was an AFC team, and the other was a tough game on the road. The Falcons lost their last game, and frankly I don't think they are as good as they were in the beginning of the season.

	11-01-2005 11:28									#334
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quote: 2002 (with Vick): 9-6-1 [playoffs - 2nd round] 2003 (without Vick): 5-11 2004 (with Vick): 11-5 [playoffs - 1st round bye] Yeah, I think he did . Without him, the Falcons don't sniff the playoffs. Without him, the Falcons are Bears.

2004 Vick: 56% completion rate, 12 INTs 14 TDs, 2313 yards, 78.1 passer rating 46 sacks for 266 yards

Not very impressive.

But wait! He's not a QB is he?

2004 Vick: 902 yards rushing, 3 TDs, 16 fumbles

A total of: 2949 yards and 30 turnovers with 15 TDs

2003 Johnson (projected over 16 games): 3310 yards, 16 TDs, 24 INTs, 38 sacks for 242 yards, 1 fumble lost

A total of: 3068 yards and 25 turnovers, and 17 TDs

---------

So Vick, actually, is responsible for 30 (!) turnovers and only 2949 yards combined, while Doug Johnson, the oh so crappy backup, pwns Vick in:

TDs scored
Total net yardage
Turnovers

Looks like Vick is actually the one holding the Falcons back.

	11-01-2005 11:39									#335
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Oh. We can't forget the loss to New Orleans. The Falcons have lost their last two. Wow! They are really playing strong going into the playoffs.

	11-01-2005 12:32									#336
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I agree there are severe limitations on Vick's ability to lead the Falcons into the SB even with a weak schedule, but the Atlanta D is improved. What Vick brings along with more turnovers is an attitude. You get inspired watching him run and that has to be deflating for opposing defenses.

My predictions

StLouis v Atlanta

The Rams clearly have the better offense but will it's defense contain Vick? The Atlanta D is going to be tough on the Rams as well.

Good off (Stl) > average off
Good def (Atl) > below average def

Tough call, but I'll give the edge to Atlanta. I like a good def over a good off. And Atlanta's at home with a week more rest...

Atlanta 24 Stl 17

Philly v Minny

With TO, no contest. Without him, a close game? Westbrook is the reason Philly will win, he'll be up against a soft def and he will roll bigtime while the stronger Philly D will shutdown Daunte much better than GB. And the same advantages Atlanta has to boot... Oh yeah, weather game too (or does Philly have a dome?).

~Above average off (Philly) > weak def
Very good off (Minn) =/> good D

Philly 27 Minn 21

Indianapolis v New England

Depends on the weather, it really does. If its tolerable the game will be close enough to go either way. If its miserable, well, Boston Airport will be closed for the game with all flights cancelled - Air Manning will be grounded with iced wings.

Primo off (Indy, duh) >/= very good def
Good off (NE) > improving but still average def

Indy will yank that monkey off its back...weather permitting... I really should make a prediction closer to game time. But I'll go with a decent weather win for

Indy 28 NE 21

Bad weather

NE 24 Indy 21

Pitt v NYJ

Both teams have ~equal offenses and ~equal defenses but I think Pitt is a bit better on both. Not that Pitt scores alot but they do move the ball without many mistakes (please dont look up stats, I'm probably way off on stuff like that ). Weather may not matter much since both teams have good or very good defenses, but Pitt got an extra week too and they're at home.

Above average off (Pitt) =/> above average offense
Very good def (Pitt) >/= good def

Pitt 21 NYJ 17

	11-01-2005 20:47									#337
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I cannot see Pittsburgh or Atlanta losing this week.

However, of New England and Philadelphia, one will lose.

	11-01-2005 22:54									#338
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I have to agree that the Rams are going to have to start getting much more interceptions to keep winning. Everyone keeps saying that except their CBs, and their the ones who will have to make the necessary changes.

	11-01-2005 23:25									#339
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Nah, I think St. Louis will do just fine against Atlanta.

As for MIN - PHI this is the way I look at it. The only way MIN wins is if they get their act together. Do I want to bet on MIN getting their act together? No. PHI should win.

	12-01-2005 00:09									#340
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quote: Originally posted by Kalius 2004 Vick: 56% completion rate, 12 INTs 14 TDs, 2313 yards, 78.1 passer rating 46 sacks for 266 yards Not very impressive. But wait! He's not a QB is he? 2004 Vick: 902 yards rushing, 3 TDs, 16 fumbles A total of: 2949 yards and 30 turnovers with 15 TDs 2003 Johnson (projected over 16 games): 3310 yards, 16 TDs, 24 INTs, 38 sacks for 242 yards, 1 fumble lost A total of: 3068 yards and 25 turnovers, and 17 TDs --------- So Vick, actually, is responsible for 30 (!) turnovers and only 2949 yards combined, while Doug Johnson, the oh so crappy backup, pwns Vick in: TDs scored Total net yardage Turnovers Looks like Vick is actually the one holding the Falcons back.

I love this Vick isn't a QB stuff because he is more of a runner .

Btw, Where in the HELL are you gettingh your fumble numbers from?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playe...ts?statsId=5448

Vick had 3 Fumbles and ZERO lost. Where does 16 come from?

And let's look at records, shall we? Johnson was 2-10. Vick is 23-12-1. LAST YEAR, Johnson was 2-10 and Vick, when he came back was 3-1, with the SAME EXACT TEAM. 75% winning percentage vs. 16% winning percentage last year? I think I'll take Vick with his 63.8% career winning percentage. Frankly, if Vick didn't come back last year, the Falcons would have had the #1 pick in the draft (and maybe could have dealt it for a nice package from the Giants).

It's funny. People who are jealous of the attention just can't handle the fact that Vick simply wins and is the catalyst for a team with an 11-5 record. They say Vick is holding the team back when without him they struggle to not be the worst team in the league and with him, they have a first round bye.

If anything, the man is underrated because there are so many haters out there that give him little to no credit.

You need to actually watch the Falcons to appreciate it. Hell, even better to watch them live. Vick IS Superman. Just come to terms with it, so you can enjoy the show .

	12-01-2005 00:21									#341
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Oh. We can't forget the loss to New Orleans. The Falcons have lost their last two. Wow! They are really playing strong going into the playoffs.

Kid, you need a clue. What was missing during that New Orleans game... do you remember? Oh yeah, VICK DIDN'T PLAY!

And as for the Seattle game, Vick played for one quarter (and played nicely), and the Seahawks STILL almost lost to rookie Matt Schaub behind center for 3 Quarters!

And the game before those? They beat the 'hottest team in the league (at the time)' Carolina.

	12-01-2005 00:32									#342
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Btw, the MVP voter who voted for Vick was not a homer from Atlanta or Blacksburg as rampant speculation was, but from DETROIT:

http://www.detnews.com/2005/lions/0501/11/f01-56421.htm

	12-01-2005 00:34									#343
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quote: Btw, Where in the HELL are you gettingh your fumble numbers from? http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playe...ts?statsId=5448 Vick had 3 Fumbles and ZERO lost. Where does 16 come from?

No he did not. Try reading. He had 3 fumbles while on the run. Doesn't account for while in the pocket.

NFL.com says, under fumbles "16 fumbles". Clear as day.
http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/235253

	12-01-2005 00:38									#344
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And under FUMBLES LOST?

That's right... a big ZERO... from your own site. How is a fumble recovered by the same team a turnover!

	12-01-2005 00:40									#345
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quote: And let's look at records, shall we? Johnson was 2-10. Vick is 23-12-1. LAST YEAR, Johnson was 2-10 and Vick, when he came back was 3-1, with the SAME EXACT TEAM. 75% winning percentage vs. 16% winning percentage last year? I think I'll take Vick with his 63.8% career winning percentage. Frankly, if Vick didn't come back last year, the Falcons would have had the #1 pick in the draft (and maybe could have dealt it for a nice package from the Giants).

It's not the same team at all. They finally have a defensive scheme worth the paper it is written on (how else would they hold out in 6-3 shootout with Arizona?), and Johnson was playing in an offense designed for Vick. I don't exactly see Doug Johnson running a 4.4 40 time now, do you?

Besides, it's a team game, not just one guy.

Not to mention the Falcons had the biggest piss easy schedule in the last 5 years.

quote: It's funny. People who are jealous of the attention just can't handle the fact that Vick simply wins and is the catalyst for a team with an 11-5 record. They say Vick is holding the team back when without him they struggle to not be the worst team in the league and with him, they have a first round bye. If anything, the man is underrated because there are so many haters out there that give him little to no credit. You need to actually watch the Falcons to appreciate it. Hell, even better to watch them live. Vick IS Superman. Just come to terms with it, so you can enjoy the show .

Sure, he can run. But he makes so many errors that at times he's total rubbish. (Tampa Bay, Carolina 4th quarter)

And Doug Johnson wouldn't be a starting QB anywhere. Can't exactly call him the cream of the NFL QB crop, can we?

Face it Imran, the stats tell it all. Vick has hurt his team as much as he has "helped" it.

	12-01-2005 00:45									#346
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Kid, you need a clue. What was missing during that New Orleans game... do you remember? Oh yeah, VICK DIDN'T PLAY!

Vick does make a lot of errors, and his recievers really aren't that bad. He just isn't a very good passer. He still looks at one reciever and if he looks open he throws too him, but too often he misreads and throws an interception. If that one reciever is covered he runs. Any team that prepares adequately for the Falcons can easily beat them.

	12-01-2005 00:46									#347
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quote: It's not the same team at all.

So last year's team wasn't the same team at all? 2-10 vs. 3-1 last year... different teams?

And Johnson playing in an offense 'designed for Vick' . Did you even watch the Dan Reeves Falcons once?

quote: Besides, it's a team game, not just one guy.

No, the Falcons are the closest thing to a one man team out there.

quote: And Doug Johnson wouldn't be a starting QB anywhere.

Before last year, he was being touted as the next big Free Agent QB who used to be a backup. If Vick didn't go down, I'm sure he would have been named starting QB for some team this year.

quote: Face it Imran, the stats tell it all. Vick has hurt his team as much as he has "helped" it.

Yeah, a team with as much talent on offense as Chicago (hell, probably the same on defense) or Tampa Bay finishes 11-5 and Vick has HURT the team as much as he has HELPED it! Where do you come up with this?

	12-01-2005 00:47									#348
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And the Falcons haven't won a game for a month. How you can be so sure of victory is beyond me.

	12-01-2005 00:48									#349
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Vick does make a lot of errors, and his recievers really aren't that bad. He just isn't a very good passer. He still looks at one reciever and if he looks open he throws too him, but too often he misreads and throws an interception. If that one reciever is covered he runs. Any team that prepares adequately for the Falcons can easily beat them.

Like St. Louis did? Like Carolina did? Their recievers aren't that bad?! WHAT? Wanna trade? Peerless Price is a #2 playing in a #1 spot. He's the new Alvin Harper (remember him?). Brian Finneran and Dez White would be lucky to be #3 on a team.

	12-01-2005 00:57									#350
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious And the Falcons haven't won a game for a month. How you can be so sure of victory is beyond me.

Mostly because I've seen what has happened in Week 2. You can say a lot has changed since then, but that was one of Vick's best games of the year. Aside from the Seattle game, where he played a quarter, the Rams game was his second highest passer rating of the year (120.3) and second highest completion percentage (73.7). That isn't even counting his rushing years (109). Martz's D was destroyed by Vick. I don't see anything which has changed on that side of the ball.

And the Falcons D was also pretty good against the Rams O that game, IIRC.

	12-01-2005 00:58									#351
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quote: No, the Falcons are the closest thing to a one man team out there.

I don't see Vick catching balls or making tackles.

quote: Yeah, a team with as much talent on offense as Chicago (hell, probably the same on defense) or Tampa Bay finishes 11-5 and Vick has HURT the team as much as he has HELPED it! Where do you come up with this?

Those 30 turnovers for a start...

	12-01-2005 01:02									#352
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quote: Originally posted by Kalius I don't see Vick catching balls or making tackles.

For all the help on offense he gets, he probably should be catching balls . At least that would prevent Peerless Price from trying to.

quote: Those 30 turnovers for a start...

What 30 turnovers? Or did you miss your link that says he LOST NO FUMBLES!

He got 12 INTs and that's it.

	12-01-2005 01:05									#353
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To underscore the point:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/stati...e=nfc&year=2004

The Falcons had a TOTAL of 30 Giveaways, which includes Schaub's 4 INTs, Dunn's 2 Fumbles lost, etc, etc... thereby making the 30 supposed turnovers of Vick to be utterly without truth .

	12-01-2005 01:07									#354
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Mostly because I've seen what has happened in Week 2. You can say a lot has changed since then, but that was one of Vick's best games of the year. Aside from the Seattle game, where he played a quarter, the Rams game was his second highest passer rating of the year (120.3) and second highest completion percentage (73.7). That isn't even counting his rushing years (109). Martz's D was destroyed by Vick. I don't see anything which has changed on that side of the ball. And the Falcons D was also pretty good against the Rams O that game, IIRC.

I didn't see that game either, but the Falcons did some things that the Rams weren't expecting. I don't think that's going to happen again. I think the Rams will be prepared on offense, and the Rams offense is definitely playing much better than they were in the beginning of the season. We have our 3 recievers working like we did when we were so sucessfull. Jackson has proven to be a top back in the league, and even Faulk is looking fresh.

The Rams D is the determinant though. I think it will be close, but the thing that will determine the winner is if the Rams D can get interceptions.

	12-01-2005 01:12									#355
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quote: the Falcons did some things that the Rams weren't expecting.

Such as? Frankly, their gameplan is pretty simple. Run, run, run and pass every once in a while.

	12-01-2005 01:15									#356
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quote: What 30 turnovers? Or did you miss your link that says he LOST NO FUMBLES!

They don't count loss under the loss column for some reason. It says his team recovered 4, making it 26, as you said.

But if you think he lost no fumbles you obviously haven't seen a Falcons game this year

	12-01-2005 01:17									#357
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And besides, he still fumbled 16 times, and all could have gone to the opposition.

He's the 2003 Tiki Barber of ball protection.

	12-01-2005 01:17									#358
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quote: They don't count loss under the loss column for some reason. It says his team recovered 4, making it 26, as you said.

No, it says HE recovered 4. He didn't lose every fumble that he, himself didn't recover .

Further cemented by:

http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/N...ar?sort_col_1=9

Which says the Falcons lost a TOTAL of 14 fumbles.

	12-01-2005 01:25									#359
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http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/teams...am=atl&season=2

This gives at least 6 fumbles lost by running backs and wide recievers. We have no idea how many were lost on punts and kickoffs (more than one at the least; I've seen more than one) or by Schaub.

quote: And besides, he still fumbled 16 times, and all could have gone to the opposition.

Which is not that horrible for a QB. Delhomme had 12 fumbles this year (and lost 5 according to NFL.com). Aaron Brooks had 13 (and lost 2). Last year Brady had 13 fumbles. In 2001, Farve had 16 fumbles. Last year Culpepper had 16 fumbles in 14 games and in 2002 had 23 fumbles!

	12-01-2005 01:29									#360
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: the Falcons did some things that the Rams weren't expecting. Such as? Frankly, their gameplan is pretty simple. Run, run, run and pass every once in a while.

I was talking about defense. Their defense is not simple at all. But Bulger and the rest of the offense have some experience against it, and they have a good idea about what they will do. They did weird stuff like attacking Pace and blitzing from the outside. Usually that stuff won't work against the Rams, but I'm sure Martz has a handle on what happened.