09-01-2005 19:39									#61
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger That's what a free market ought to be. As I said before, even neoclassicists hold that it is necessary to have government regulations because of monopolies and cartels.

These same people also say that an absolute free market is not ideal, because some regulation is needed.

	09-01-2005 23:10									#62
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quote: Originally posted by Drogue This study *does* include tax, look at "Financial Burden". That is about the tax rate and the amount of GDP the government controls. That's why HK is top, having a 2 for that, whereas the UK and other EU countries get nearer 4s.

Taxes are generally going to be equal to spending and will be in the long run.

	09-01-2005 23:14									#63
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker These same people also say that an absolute free market is not ideal, because some regulation is needed.

Even if you consider the necessary regulation that these people support, an economy run like that would be run into the ground. The study is so ridiculous because comparing real economies to that ideal economy is no measure of how strong an economy is. Some of the economies on their list are strong, but they aren't anything like the ideal economy of the people who did the study.

	09-01-2005 23:18									#64
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger That's what a free market ought to be. As I said before, even neoclassicists hold that it is necessary to have government regulations because of monopolies and cartels.

Regulating monopolies does not make individuals free to compete. All it does is break up one big company and turn it into little ones.

	09-01-2005 23:21									#65
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quote: Originally posted by Berzerker SS is running a surplus because the polticians are "skimming" ~%15 from a large chunk of wage/income in this country. So dont complain about regressive taxes and poor people then extol the virtues of a Ponzi scheme that would be illegal in the private sector.

Actually the tax payers are 'skimming' Berzerker. Jeez.

	10-01-2005 00:03									#66
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Even if you consider the necessary regulation that these people support, an economy run like that would be run into the ground.

Which is of course why America and the West lost the Cold War due to malfunctioning economies

	10-01-2005 00:18									#67
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I think that the heritage's research sucks a little. I would wish they were right about the top 26,5 tax rate for Denmark, but the cruel reality according to my tax prediction for 2005 is :

SS tax 8 % of gross income.
local tax 32,3 % of net inc
bottom state tax 5,5 % of net
medium state tax 6 % of net inc above 259.500
top state tax 15 % of net inc above 311.500

which gives 66,8 % tax on income above 311.500

that migth move Denmark a couple of places down the list.

	10-01-2005 00:33									#68
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quote: Originally posted by Berzerker SS is running a surplus because the polticians are "skimming" ~%15 from a large chunk of wage/income in this country. So dont complain about regressive taxes and poor people then extol the virtues of a Ponzi scheme that would be illegal in the private sector.

First of all, in a Ponzi scheme the people who get in early make a lot, and with time people who get in latrer get less and less and the system is not sustainable- in SS, people get the pension and will continue to get it indefinitely, even if in 30-40 years money for this will have to be taken out of the General fund, that or raise payroll taxes.

Its not a POnzi scheme, and it will keep on chugging.

	10-01-2005 00:35									#69
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo No you aren't. YOu are just spamming.

Anyone stupid enough to say the US is a creditor nation is not worth enough spittle to "argue" with them. laughing at you out of pity is really the only correct action.

I have officially now wasted far too much time acknowledging your existance. I am off.

	10-01-2005 01:23									#70
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quote: We must kick out immigrants who don't deserve to be here

like gay latino rich kids who do nothing but spam poly?

	10-01-2005 02:18									#71
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel possible. geez, lighten up. Anyhow, what's with the immigrant-hating, Giancarlo? Immigrants, such as your parents, too, I suppose, have built that country.

I have no problem with productive immigrants. Like a intimidating Austrian who landed himself as governor in California.

I have no problems with people who work for a living. But those who are illegally... get out... and stop sucking up welfare. This isn't a communist hellhole.

	10-01-2005 02:20									#72
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Anyone stupid enough to say the US is a creditor nation is not worth enough spittle to "argue" with them. laughing at you out of pity is really the only correct action. I have officially now wasted far too much time acknowledging your existance. I am off.

Why doesn't the US just call in its debt? No more europe. And the US is a creditor nation. Anybody who disputes me is wrong. That simple. I'm laughing at you. Why don't we call in our debt for your little nation of Panama? Goodbye. Your country's economy just collapsed.

	10-01-2005 02:34									#73
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quote: Actually the tax payers are 'skimming' Berzerker. Jeez.

I'm a taxpayer and I'm stuck paying the SS tax. Black men are the most likely to work for decades paying into the system only to die before collecting a dime. If it was really the taxpayers then make SS voluntary. And if your point is that many taxpayers and voters want SS, no kidding. But its still the politicians who make the laws...

quote: First of all, in a Ponzi scheme the people who get in early make a lot, and with time people who get in latrer get less and less and the system is not sustainable

Thats how SS works. People who got in early get more "return" on their "contribution", and the reason Ponzi schemes are unsustainable is because people eventually wise up and stop joining while SS compliance is backed by people with guns.

quote: in SS, people get the pension and will continue to get it indefinitely, even if in 30-40 years money for this will have to be taken out of the General fund, that or raise payroll taxes.

All that would be true for Ponzi schemes if the law compelled us to but into them.

quote: Its not a POnzi scheme, and it will keep on chugging.

It is a Ponzi scheme, its "success" depends on forcing us to join.

	10-01-2005 02:36									#74
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quote: Anybody who disputes me is wrong.

That convinced me.

	10-01-2005 03:16									#75
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quote: Originally posted by Berzerker I'm a taxpayer and I'm stuck paying the SS tax. Black men are the most likely to work for decades paying into the system only to die before collecting a dime. If it was really the taxpayers then make SS voluntary. And if your point is that many taxpayers and voters want SS, no kidding. But its still the politicians who make the laws...

The voters make the laws. They pay the taxes and they recieve the benefits. Focusing on the politicians just shows how nutty you are.

	10-01-2005 03:19									#76
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker Which is of course why America and the West lost the Cold War due to malfunctioning economies

You are hardly talking about what the heritage foundation would call a free market.

	10-01-2005 04:25									#77
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel quote: slight = 1.2-1.4 trillion What does that include?

non-discretionary spending.

	10-01-2005 04:28									#78
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Dammit, they can't even spell Libya right

	10-01-2005 05:56									#79
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Great to see Australia in the top 10.

	10-01-2005 08:13									#80
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quote: The voters make the laws. They pay the taxes and they recieve the benefits. Focusing on the politicians just shows how nutty you are.

Focusing? I merely identified the people responsible for SS. The politicians all agree on maintaining the system more or less intact, all the voters dont. So, if I said the voters wanted SS, some contrarian like you (or me) would chime in with the fact the voters dont support the system, some do and some don't. Btw, I'm a voter and I've never made any law... At least when I said the politicians imposed SS on us, I was right. Your "rebuttal" was a generalisation and flawed.

	10-01-2005 09:01									#81
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quote: Originally posted by Berzerker Focusing? I merely identified the people responsible for SS. The politicians all agree on maintaining the system more or less intact, all the voters dont. So, if I said the voters wanted SS, some contrarian like you (or me) would chime in with the fact the voters dont support the system, some do and some don't. Btw, I'm a voter and I've never made any law... At least when I said the politicians imposed SS on us, I was right. Your "rebuttal" was a generalisation and flawed.

Personally, I think you should go around stealing senior citizens' Social Security checks. THAT would be a great TV show.

"Libertarian sociopaths"

duh duh duh duh duh how dare we give senior citizens money to buy medications...

duhd uduh duh duh duh du we should let them die in squalor

duhd udh duh duh duh ud h WE ALL DIE ANYWAYS!!##!!#

	10-01-2005 09:29									#82
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quote: Originally posted by Drogue Actually this study counts monopoly control and regulation of natural monopolies as anti-free. In this study, a free market does mean free from regulations, as much as possible.

According to them, yes. That's why they think we are so free, while lots of sectors are being controlled by monopolies, cartels and oligopolies. For example, there are two giant chains of supermarkets, and their prices are higher than corner drugstores.

	10-01-2005 09:31									#83
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Regulating monopolies does not make individuals free to compete. All it does is break up one big company and turn it into little ones.

It depends on the anti-trust or "fair competition" law in place. Breaking up monopolies is just one of the possible actions.

	10-01-2005 09:40									#84
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo I have no problem with productive immigrants. Like a intimidating Austrian who landed himself as governor in California. I have no problems with people who work for a living. But those who are illegally... get out... and stop sucking up welfare. This isn't a communist hellhole.

Don't know why I'm bothering, but:

Illegal immigrants are not sucking up welfare. They are, instead, working jobs that are so crappy that ordinary Americans won't do them. By contrast, fat, white, rural Americans who would vote Republican (if they could be bothered to vote) because it's the party of Jesus are sucking up welfare -- instead of detassling corn, emptying bedpans, raising rich peole's kids for them, and/or doing anything else that illegals tend to do. If you can get them to leave America, I say go for it.

	10-01-2005 12:02									#85
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quote: Much of government intervention seems to be to maintain cartels rather than to demolish them.

Yes, this is the unfortunate truth of intervention both by regulation and by government purchasing power.

	10-01-2005 14:43									#86
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quote: Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly Don't know why I'm bothering, but: Illegal immigrants are not sucking up welfare. They are, instead, working jobs that are so crappy that ordinary Americans won't do them. By contrast, fat, white, rural Americans who would vote Republican (if they could be bothered to vote) because it's the party of Jesus are sucking up welfare -- instead of detassling corn, emptying bedpans, raising rich peole's kids for them, and/or doing anything else that illegals tend to do. If you can get them to leave America, I say go for it.

Problem with this: They are not legal and do not have documentation. And often they are sucking up welfare. Example: California. You are full of crap.

	10-01-2005 14:55									#87
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I have an excellent solution to America's problems.

Find every person who has ever voted Republican and make it illegal for them to ever vote again.

Either that or shoot them.

Problems solved.

	10-01-2005 15:04									#88
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I've actually voted Republican. In fact it was the last time I voted I think.

	10-01-2005 15:21									#89
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Sava

quote: Personally, I think you should go around stealing senior citizens' Social Security checks. THAT would be a great TV show. "Libertarian sociopaths" duh duh duh duh duh how dare we give senior citizens money to buy medications... duhd uduh duh duh duh du we should let them die in squalor duhd udh duh duh duh ud h WE ALL DIE ANYWAYS!!##!!#

You mean its stealing if I refuse to participate in Social Security? Oh yeah, liberals think the rest of us exist to pay for what they want...kinda like small children in a candy store...

	10-01-2005 17:47									#90
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quote: Originally posted by Berzerker Oh yeah, liberals think the rest of us exist to pay for what they want...

They also think that they exist to pay for what everyone else wants, too. Those selfish selfless bastards.