12-01-2005 09:22									#91
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quote: Originally posted by DanS You can't extrapolate from France and Germany. Comparatively speaking, we weren't very popular in France and Germany in the first place and the governments of these two countries were the ringleaders in the Security Council opposed to US action in Iraq.

The stat graphic that Ramo put up shows only shows a microcosm of a global trend in general. Which has gone down. Way down.


Besides I know even without looking at the stats that our worldwide opinion is continuing to sink.

We are slitting our own throats here and people are standing by "debating" it. This kinda sh1t shouldn't be up for debate because it should be intolerable, PERIOD.

Dammit when are you guys gonna wake up and smell the ****ing coffee!?

	12-01-2005 10:37									#92
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Hey Ted. I think it would be helpful for you to answer my question posed to Arrian...

quote: Short of death squads, do you have any ideas about a reasonably just solution to this problem of the minority not settling for their proper share of power?

Any ideas, wise guy?

	12-01-2005 10:42									#93
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I think that instead of death squads, we should use SUPER DUPER DEATH SQUADS!!!!



Do you actually have an opinion Dan or do you just like playing cutesy games?

	12-01-2005 10:45									#94
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quote: Originally posted by DanS Hey Ted. I think it would be helpful for you to answer my question posed to Arrian...

I didn't realize that killing off a minority was considered a "reasonably just solution"...

	12-01-2005 10:47									#95
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BTW Dan, can you remind me why we invaded Iraq?

	12-01-2005 10:49									#96
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian How can you even consider it? What the hell is wrong with you? -Arrian

It's nice to live in a nice, safe place. A place where the bad guys don't go to blowing themselves and your neighbours up on a daily basis.

It's nice you aren't living in the environment of the birth of your nation. One where revolutionaries were killing loyalists on sight, and vice versa.

It's nice you want the Iraqis to play clean. It's commendable. However, it isn't your neighbours being blown up, and it isn't your country being torn apart by insurgents.

I think the words 'there but for the grace of God go I... ' should apply and judgement should be withheld, at least as far as the Iraqi authorities are concerned.

	12-01-2005 10:56									#97
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...and betray all the ideals for which this country stands.

Well said notyoueither, I'm glad we didn't invade your country.

	12-01-2005 11:00									#98
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither It's nice to live in a nice, safe place. A place where the bad guys don't go to blowing themselves and your neighbours up on a daily basis.

Well, I work in a not-so-nice area, and I watch from time-to-time the police treat people like ****.

Am I safer? Do I feel safer? Does this behavior solve the existing problem or perpetuate it?

	12-01-2005 11:02									#99
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quote: I think the words 'there but for the grace of God go I... ' should apply and judgement should be withheld, at least as far as the Iraqi authorities are concerned.

Exactly nye. With insurgent militants like the Sadrists, and foreign funded terrorists like Allawi, Saddam Hussein had it rough. We sure were presumptious to remove him from power.

	12-01-2005 11:05									#100
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quote: Originally posted by DanS Any ideas, wise guy?

Try bailing and washing your hands of the situation. If there are going to be death squads, let it be so, but don't ****ing train them.

	12-01-2005 11:06									#101
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo BTW Dan, can you remind me why we invaded Iraq?

WMD.

	12-01-2005 11:08									#102
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quote: Originally posted by Theben Well, I work in a not-so-nice area, and I watch from time-to-time the police treat people like ****. Am I safer? Do I feel safer? Does this behavior solve the existing problem or perpetuate it?

When was the last time you qued up for a job and wondered if the minivan pulling up was loaded with explosives about to be set off by the driver?

You seriously think you have a clue what the average Iraqi is going through and that the situation in the average American city or town holds a candle to what is goin on in Baghdad?

There may be situtations where normal rules don't apply. I think the rules started going out the window about the time the first person was being beheaded 'Live, on AJ TV!'.

	12-01-2005 11:08									#103
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quote: Originally posted by DanS Hey Ted. I think it would be helpful for you to answer my question posed to Arrian... Any ideas, wise guy?

Wow, you are justifying just about every communist revolution and most national liberation movements. What has happened to you?

	12-01-2005 11:09									#104
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quote: Try bailing and washing your hands of the situation. If there are going to be death squads, let it be so, but don't ****ing train them.

I doubt Ted Striker would be cool with that either, since he would know that we would be culpable if we condoned the death squads being set up, even if we didn't set them up ourselves. Running away from the responsibility does not obviate the responsibility.

	12-01-2005 11:10									#105
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quote: Wow, you are justifying just about every communist revolution and most national liberation movements.

Nope.

	12-01-2005 11:10									#106
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quote: Originally posted by St Leo quote: Originally posted by DanS Any ideas, wise guy? Try bailing and washing your hands of the situation. If there are going to be death squads, let it be so, but don't ****ing train them.

Why should they bail, and why should they have to ignore the nature of the enemy they face?

Unarmed Bobbies and asking politely don't work in all situations.

	12-01-2005 11:11									#107
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quote: Originally posted by Oncle Boris Wow, you are justifying just about every communist revolution and most national liberation movements. What has happened to you?

Why not? Che does.

	12-01-2005 11:12									#108
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither When was the last time you qued up for a job and wondered if the minivan pulling up was loaded with explosives about to be set off by the driver? You seriously think you have a clue what the average Iraqi is going through and that the situation in the average American city or town holds a candle to what is goin on in Baghdad? There may be situtations where normal rules don't apply. I think the rules started going out the window about the time the first person was being beheaded 'Live, on AJ TV!'.

Which is fine, until the word sympathizers gets added in.

As we have seen in Abu Gharib, definitions that are not clearly defined AND enforced are stretched beyond their original intents.

	12-01-2005 11:13									#109
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Why not? Che does.

See the sig.

	12-01-2005 11:13									#110
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker I'm glad we didn't invade your country.

We would have kicked your ass, again.

	12-01-2005 11:14									#111
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither We would have kicked your ass, again.

Bomb us with Sea Kings?

	12-01-2005 11:14									#112
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quote: WMD.

I was asking Dan his justification for the Iraq war. But that's not the reason - the White House isn't quite that retarded.

	12-01-2005 11:17									#113
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There were a number of reasons we invaded. I have my favorites among the reasons. I don't think we need to rehash them here. But if you want to take the time to delineate them, making sure not to artificially exclude any of the reasons, then be my guest.

	12-01-2005 11:17									#114
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker Which is fine, until the word sympathizers gets added in. As we have seen in Abu Gharib, definitions that are not clearly defined AND enforced are stretched beyond their original intents.

Attacking the basis of support has been a method of warfare since the mid 19th century. In fact, it was a Yank named Sherman who pioneered it, I think.

A civil war is nastier in degree than any other type of war. The winner will be the one willing to do what is necessary in the most effective degree.

	12-01-2005 11:18									#115
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither We would have kicked your ass, again.

That was the British Empire, not you.


Bootstrapping doesn't count.

	12-01-2005 11:19									#116
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Bomb us with Sea Kings?

Naw, changing the road signs to direct you all to Churchill and letting the polar bears have you would most likely work.

	12-01-2005 11:19									#117
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quote: There were a number of reasons we invaded. I have my favorites among the reasons. I don't think we need to rehash them here. But if you want to take the time to delineate them, making sure not to artificially exclude any of the reasons, then be my guest.

I'm asking you how you justify the invasion. I know you like making nebulous insinuations so you can weasel out of anything, but it would be nice if you could establish your position. Nothing in depth, a couple sentence summary would do.

	12-01-2005 11:19									#118
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I too am amazed at the amorality of those who can justify such actions on the basis that if might not affect US "popularity". Is there no action that is intrinsicaly wrong in their book?

Moreover, I suspect that the few who attempt to justify this policy have been staunch opponents of terrorism (as in 9-11) in the past. But what is this, if not terrorism? And if terrorism is bad ONLY when used by your enemy against you, but it's OK if you use it against your enemy, where does that leave them? What do they really stand for? I think they don't really know.

	12-01-2005 11:19									#119
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo quote: WMD. But that's not the reason - the White House isn't quite that retarded.

That was the reason for the invasion. I don't really care for whatever it morphed into afterwards but that is the reason troops were initially sent.

	12-01-2005 11:21									#120
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker That was the British Empire, not you. Bootstrapping doesn't count.

Are you kidding? The founders of Ontario as a colony began there as bases to burn revolutionary townships down.

Our history of firing Yankee homesteads goes way back.