09-02-2005 04:54									#121
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

You may be thinking of special suits of jousting armour, but even there the weight was less than later spin would have us believe. It might also be a ceremonial suit, intended as an ornate and ostentatious gift rather than a functional one. When a lot of PnP RPGs were being written it was popularly believed that battlefield suits were heavier and bulkier than they now believe is true.

A friend owns a full suit of plate. When we were in our 20's he had no trouble wearing it all day as we slogged round the countryside, but we were both much, much fitter back then

	09-02-2005 05:03									#122
	Get a bigger avatar today!

what were you doing slogging around the countryside in full plate armour?

	09-02-2005 17:26									#123
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Raping and pillaging obviously.

	09-02-2005 21:21									#124
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Its ok i think its one of british peoples secret 'things', being surrounded by all this history etc does make you think about it more.

At least i'm not the only pre-history nutter on poly

on that theme would anyone else like to see 1 turn=1year in civ?

	10-02-2005 00:09									#125
	Put an end to popups!

no . The game is long enough as it is. . The fact is, it's not a wargame, but a history simlution. you'll never be able to adapt the rules as a wargame.

If you want a wargame, play Korusn's pocket. .

	10-02-2005 00:45									#126
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by child of Thor on that theme would anyone else like to see 1 turn=1year in civ?

No, it would be stupid. The early turns are 50 years for very good reasons.

	10-02-2005 01:09									#127
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by DrSpike No, it would be stupid. The early turns are 50 years for very good reasons.

such as? I guess one is to get people into the modern(more interesting?) times quicker. After all nothing interesting happens before tanks right?

Its one of the main reasons i like to play CTP2(modded) - i can have a much more fleshed out earlier game, most of the civ games are pretty much over by the time you hit the industrial revolution, or shortly after then. The world usually has its super power who will eventualy win at this point. So i never understood the design rush to get you there quicker.

Civ is meant to be a long involving game, it kind of opitimises(sp?) this, became famous for it.
But it always left me wanting more involvement, more substance, more depth. This is what makes the game so special.

EDIT:

opps off-topic

er no Dungeons and Dragons isn't the best system for Crpg's imho.

	10-02-2005 02:09									#128
	Increase Your PM Length

no, child of Thor, they're 50 years long because if the game were to illustrate things as they were in the 00000's ad, people wouldn't have any research for thousands of turns rather than tens or hundreds as of now- there would be little sense of achievement as tech would be much slower.

	10-02-2005 03:07									#129
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

And whos to say things happend slowly all the time?
I think its a common mistake that mainstream acedemia tends to make. because its hard to find much surviveing evidence from these time periods, people tend to think that nothing happend.

One small example i can think of to illistrate this:

knowing what plants to eat, and further knowing what their properties are. This is a whole human history of knowledge, on going from the time we crawled into the world. The totality of that knowledge didnt happen over night, and each new 'break through' in that knowledge could be a big deal. It could save lives. Now adays its sadly only survived in things like most people know that rubbing 'Dock leaves' on to nettle stings helps soothe the pain etc. But once this was a vital componant of the village lore. Detailed, studied and practised by the knowledge keeper.

Or how about the metal skills of the celtic tribes - some of their work is amazingly fine and beutifull. The simple' "your people now know the secret of bronze working" etc doesnt do it justice, and many smaller inovations and refinements would have taken place before you would be able to immitate their work even today.

So i dont think 50years per turn should be because people think nothing happened back then in the mists of time. In fact why not have it the other way around, and gloss over the period from after the industrial revolution, as by this point we usually know who has won the game, so it wont impact the outcome much? or something like that

Last edited by child of Thor on 10-02-2005 at 03:12

	10-02-2005 03:31									#130
	Increase Your PM Length

1 yr turns - thats 6000 turns. If you take 2 minutes per turn (and if youre going to go any faster, why keep it turn based, why not just go RT pausable a la Paradox) thats 12000 minutes. or 200 hours. Playing 20 hours a week thats gonna take 10 weeks to play through.

Some might like a mod like this, but I cant say it would be high on my list.


And at one year per turn you STILL havent gotten to realistic wars. If you set realistic movement youve still got it possible to move a fleet from the atlantic to the Pacific and BACK, a few times in one turn - youve still got all of WW2 (or a similar althistorical modern conflict) happening in 6 turns. Modern wars will happen to fast to be interesting - or, as currently they will be stretched out to long to be realistic.

No, if youre going for a realist history sim with a time scale thats granular enough to be interesting, but isnt so long as to be unplayable you either go for a short period, or you go for RT pausable, or, like Paradox, you do both.

(interesting that even with its RT system Paradox hasnt tried a 6000 year game. If youre going to go to that level of realism, youve got the problem of differing political dynamics - which paradox addresses by designing specific systems for specific periods.

	10-02-2005 03:33									#131
	Get a bigger avatar today!

but if you like the civ approach, and youre interested mainly in the ancient world, you should try Kullivans ancient empires scenarios.

	10-02-2005 03:38									#132
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

BTW, as ive told Spikey, Civ2 DOES have serious things to teach us about history that the Paradox games, hist wargames, cant and dont. But it teaches us those things without needing one year turns.

	10-02-2005 04:00									#133
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Dissident what were you doing slogging around the countryside in full plate armour?

I was in chainmail, only Nick was mad enough (and rich enough) to get a suit of plate made. We were doing live action role playing, of course!

	10-02-2005 04:23									#134
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Grumbold I was in chainmail, only Nick was mad enough (and rich enough) to get a suit of plate made. We were doing live action role playing, of course!

I was looking for 'worm-holes' back in time when i did mine

	10-02-2005 04:40									#135
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark 1 yr turns - thats 6000 turns. If you take 2 minutes per turn (and if youre going to go any faster, why keep it turn based, why not just go RT pausable a la Paradox) thats 12000 minutes. or 200 hours. Playing 20 hours a week thats gonna take 10 weeks to play through. Some might like a mod like this, but I cant say it would be high on my list. edit.......

Well not so much a Mod as a new civ game. And just because it would take a while shouldn't put you off. Look at it this way.
The first time you played Civ - could you put it down easily? Or did you do a few 'burn the midnight oil' sessions because it felt so cool to be playing the game?

I'll guess like most people you'll opt for the later? So just extend that by a few months - sure it would get in the way of real life quite a bit but it would be the mother of all gaming experiences, well for TBS fans anyway

Maybe its just my fantasy..........its just that as a new-age console player and long time gamer, i kinda long for the games that would bring back some of that Civ sparkle.

I dont want games designed to fit into my busy real life schedule, i want something that really makes me want to play long sessions and just keeps on going.

This doesnt happen anymore. Either i finish the game in a few nights(Halo2 etc) or its just not that inspiring from the outset(most other stuff post 2000 imho).

So i could easily handle 1turn=1year in such a game, heck even throw in some seasons to add a little something extra. I'd find time in my busy adult/grown up/responsible life to play it as for long as it took.

6 million turns......no problem, bring it on