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Conqueror is offline Conqueror
King
UAC research complex
Dec 2001
time: 07:29
  Old Post 01-02-2005 04:02
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snoopy : Team 4's civ choise confirms to be Egypt , not Carthage, as the democratic vote resulted in more points for Egypt.

Aqualung71 is offline Aqualung71
Emperor
Lord Desolator of the Desolation Row, C3CDG
Oct 2002
time: 12:29
  Old Post 01-02-2005 04:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Beta


I don't know about you, but Team Babylon's cheque is in the mail.


Obviously you're not American....you spelt "cheque" correctly

Grandpa Troll is offline Grandpa Troll

Immortal
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Jul 2000
time: 00:29
  Old Post 01-02-2005 04:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Aqualung71


Obviously you're not American....you spelt "cheque" correctly




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snoopy369 is offline snoopy369

Emperor
Of the Peanuts Gallery
Apr 2004
time: 23:29
  Old Post 01-02-2005 04:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Aqualung71


Obviously you're not American....you spelt "cheque" correctly


Ahem. I believe you mean spelled it British. (Well, you probably meant "spelt", another britishism.) Us US-Americans spell these things correctly for our language.

Lord Nuclear is offline Lord Nuclear
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Jun 2002
time: 21:29
  Old Post 01-02-2005 04:49
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Still no response from the other DG'ers?

Grandpa Troll is offline Grandpa Troll

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Jul 2000
time: 00:29
  Old Post 01-02-2005 04:53
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quote:
Originally posted by snoopy369


Ahem. I believe you mean spelled it British. (Well, you probably meant "spelt", another britishism.) Us US-Americans spell these things correctly for our language.


which is why I poseted abuv sine

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Beta is offline Beta

Deity
Prowling in a PBEM near you!
Nov 2002
time: 00:29
  Old Post 01-02-2005 05:32 Visit Beta<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/lifer-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Aqualung71


Obviously you're not American....you spelt "cheque" correctly


That would be correct. I think you have checked the Clash of Titans thread - and the I AM CANADIAN rant.

Beta is offline Beta

Deity
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Nov 2002
time: 00:29
  Old Post 01-02-2005 05:35 Visit Beta<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/lifer-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Nuclear
Still no response from the other DG'ers?


Give em time.

I have also asked Flandrien - a tried and true pbem player.

Beta is offline Beta

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Nov 2002
time: 00:29
  Old Post 01-02-2005 05:39 Visit Beta<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/lifer-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
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snoop - two things. Please add micha to our team list in the first post.

And regarding the optimum times for teams to play - it would appear that we should play before you folks. You have 3 players at gmt-8.

Then again - this may have to be hashed out some more, as we cannot expect the short turnaround times of pbems. Going back to slotting it into 12 hour period may work best.

Any thoughts from the others on how we make this work?

snoopy369 is offline snoopy369

Emperor
Of the Peanuts Gallery
Apr 2004
time: 23:29
  Old Post 01-02-2005 06:43
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Done. And actually that was what I was going to ask next: When do we put each team?

I suggest one of two things:

1. Slotting each team by the majority of its players.
2. Slotting each team by its initial turn player.

Since it looks to be 12 hour turns only for the first era, the initial turn player will likely play out the first era, or at least a large part of it, and that might be the more logical arrangement. BUT, we have to know our initial turn players first ...

If you know your initial turn player now, please say so, or have an idea (at least to the point of knowing what time period that person would like to play during?) ...

Grandpa Troll is offline Grandpa Troll

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Jul 2000
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  Old Post 01-02-2005 07:00
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so we each play the turns or we discuss and the Team Captain Plays?

Thanks

Gramps

Cort Haus is offline Cort Haus
Emperor
London
Apr 2002
time: 05:29
  Old Post 01-02-2005 07:15
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Beta and Krill - thank you both for inviting me to this game.

I say you should play it with five teams. It'll speed the game up, and allocate more players to each team. You'll need 'em.

Unfortunately, I don't think I can realistically offer the committment needed to maintain an active role in another DG team. The PTWGDs 1 and 2 have been fun and fascinating, but at times demanding in time and energy.

The enthusiasm that surrounds a new game can be exhilarating, but unfortunately can run out of steam, and these games can take years.

Good gameplay takes time and work. The workload for active members (turnplay, diplomacy, planning, general-ing, leading discussion, making decisions) can get disproportionate and sometimes burdensome. Few have worked as hard as Vondrack in a DG, and his decision not to repeat the exercise is informative.

I have some other comments, but I'll post this first ...

Grandpa Troll is offline Grandpa Troll

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Jul 2000
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  Old Post 01-02-2005 07:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Cort Haus
Beta and Krill - thank you both for inviting me to this game.

I say you should play it with five teams. It'll speed the game up, and allocate more players to each team. You'll need 'em.

Unfortunately, I don't think I can realistically offer the committment needed to maintain an active role in another DG team. The PTWGDs 1 and 2 have been fun and fascinating, but at times demanding in time and energy.

The enthusiasm that surrounds a new game can be exhilarating, but unfortunately can run out of steam, and these games can take years.

Good gameplay takes time and work. The workload for active members (turnplay, diplomacy, planning, general-ing, leading discussion, making decisions) can get disproportionate and sometimes burdensome. Few have worked as hard as Vondrack in a DG, and his decision not to repeat the exercise is informative.

I have some other comments, but I'll post this first ...


it says volumes...makes one ponder

Lord Nuclear is offline Lord Nuclear
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Jun 2002
time: 21:29
  Old Post 01-02-2005 07:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Grandpa Troll
so we each play the turns or we discuss and the Team Captain Plays?

Thanks

Gramps


I guess it depends on the team.

Cort Haus is offline Cort Haus
Emperor
London
Apr 2002
time: 05:29
  Old Post 01-02-2005 07:37
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The Pangea sounds a good idea, and as OPD said, a balanced map is important in an undertaking like this.

In the DG2, teams who chose names starting with 'M' got a rough deal on the map, and one continent was soon completely Ironless, and probably will be the whole game.

Land and resource allocation were significantly imbalanced in the DG1 and while Resource availability became a talking point in C3C SP, I think it hurts hardest in a DG. I don't know what the answer is though. One of each around every starting location is fair but would it be interesting? Would it be Civ? Tough job for a mapmaker.

Would it be heretical to suggest a level playing field? Give all civs similar land and resources so no-one gets screwed from the off.

Finally, I'll echo those who have argued that it is better to spend a bit of time at the start on the game design, than risking wasting years of everyone's time on a flawed scenario. On a 20-30 hour SP game, any map'll do. DG's need something better.

Grandpa Troll is offline Grandpa Troll

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Jul 2000
time: 00:29
  Old Post 01-02-2005 07:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Nuclear


I guess it depends on the team.


so..excuse me while I smirk we now once we get the setting here in this forum discussion..

break and have subforum discussions?

wow,..just like work..create a workflow impact by holding a meeting to discuss more efficient ways to operate



sorry

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snoopy369 is offline snoopy369

Emperor
Of the Peanuts Gallery
Apr 2004
time: 23:29
  Old Post 01-02-2005 08:05
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lol ...

Cort, I agree to some extent. I've argued a few times for an even resource distribution ... but at the same time it wouldn't be civ either ...

It is looking more and more like 5 teams is the answer. I am still willing to wait until Tuesday to find a sixth - I think 6 teams would work nearly as well as 5 especially since the odd number would almost always mean we'd need a skipped 12 hour period or else we would be asking people to play alternately in the morning and in the evening every other turn...

GT, most teams will probably have a primary turnplayer that makes the turn-to-turn decisions, while discussing in the 3 days between turns the bigger issues. After all, most of what matters is placement of cities, decisions to go to war, etc. that you have plenty of time to do.

Cort Haus is offline Cort Haus
Emperor
London
Apr 2002
time: 05:29
  Old Post 01-02-2005 08:06
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The desire for strict timeouts is understandable - but when (as so often happens) a team is reduced to one person, that person will inevitably have to miss turns as life dictates, hence screwing up the game.

Both the DG1 and DG2 had their periods of fast-play rhythm, where turns would turn around every 24-36 hours. This was partly due to timezone-luck, but also due to peacetime and building. Wars just aren't quick, unless you want to play without consulting team-mates and allies, who may be in different timezones. If lots of wars are intended for this game, they won't be perfectly co-ordinated with strict timeouts - especially on a 12-hour turn limit.

Lord Nuclear is offline Lord Nuclear
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Jun 2002
time: 21:29
  Old Post 01-02-2005 08:16
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We can wait until Tuesday for Team Six, but I still doubt that we will get enough people for another team.

Beta is offline Beta

Deity
Prowling in a PBEM near you!
Nov 2002
time: 00:29
  Old Post 01-02-2005 09:13 Visit Beta<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/lifer-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
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I have an ace up my sleeve for team six. Give them 24 hours.

snoopy369 is offline snoopy369

Emperor
Of the Peanuts Gallery
Apr 2004
time: 23:29
  Old Post 01-02-2005 09:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Cort Haus
The desire for strict timeouts is understandable - but when (as so often happens) a team is reduced to one person, that person will inevitably have to miss turns as life dictates, hence screwing up the game.

Both the DG1 and DG2 had their periods of fast-play rhythm, where turns would turn around every 24-36 hours. This was partly due to timezone-luck, but also due to peacetime and building. Wars just aren't quick, unless you want to play without consulting team-mates and allies, who may be in different timezones. If lots of wars are intended for this game, they won't be perfectly co-ordinated with strict timeouts - especially on a 12-hour turn limit.


Absolutely. 12 hour time limits after all are only going to end up being for the first era; any wars in that era will be short. And, I see no problem in doing it as any other strict pbem: requests for extensions can be granted. However, hopefully teams will remain involved enough so this isn't necessary. (I see no reason to be hopeful, even if past events have shown this unlikely over the long term.) At a minumum, we can keep to these time limits until it proves unmanageable and can mutually decide to abandon them...

snoopy369 is offline snoopy369

Emperor
Of the Peanuts Gallery
Apr 2004
time: 23:29
  Old Post 01-02-2005 09:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Beta
I have an ace up my sleeve for team six. Give them 24 hours.


Ahem. Cheating so soon?

24 hours it is. No reason not to give you and the Crew a chance.

Lord Nuclear is offline Lord Nuclear
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Jun 2002
time: 21:29
  Old Post 01-02-2005 09:21
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How much do you want to bet that Beta has absolutely nothing up his sleeve?

Beta is offline Beta

Deity
Prowling in a PBEM near you!
Nov 2002
time: 00:29
  Old Post 01-02-2005 09:25 Visit Beta<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/lifer-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
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I may surprise you. I have friends elsewhere on Apolyton.

Lord Nuclear is offline Lord Nuclear
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  Old Post 01-02-2005 09:47
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Calling in the OT'ers?

Aqualung71 is offline Aqualung71
Emperor
Lord Desolator of the Desolation Row, C3CDG
Oct 2002
time: 12:29
  Old Post 01-02-2005 16:17
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The Desolation Row wishes to announce the appointment of it's newest black knight, the mad Korean, Masuro!

Grandpa Troll is offline Grandpa Troll

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Jul 2000
time: 00:29
  Old Post 01-02-2005 16:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Beta
I may surprise you. I have friends elsewhere on Apolyton.


I need a friend if you have any extra's?

sometimes I'm a wee bit GRUMPEE and run mine off

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MrWhereItsAt is offline MrWhereItsAt
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New Year's Resolution: 2005 is the year of Where It's At - come get some.
Nov 2001
time: 17:29
  Old Post 01-02-2005 16:54
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OK guys, things are starting to move towards decisions. Perhaps each team captain could quickly canvass their teams to see if they are OK with the captains voting on behalf of their team in a post here on difficulty and world settings. Team caps???? Will you please let us know when you do this?

This could mean we don't need to spend loads of time on polls, but these could be set up if that idea doesn't work.

Next, we need each team captain to finalise a name and come up with some quick ideas for team icons. I'm not sure how quickly the Admins will respond to us asking for new things like polls and icons etc, but get those things started and I know I can sweet-talk Mark and Dan a bit.

BTW, for any discussions that could be done in real time whilst people are online at the same time, go into the #civ3dem room on the Apolyton.net IRC server - it's still there, and I hope to see someone from time to time....

MrWhereItsAt is offline MrWhereItsAt
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New Year's Resolution: 2005 is the year of Where It's At - come get some.
Nov 2001
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  Old Post 01-02-2005 16:57
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Oh. Er, I see a lot of this is going on already in polls... Never mind those bits then.

Beta is offline Beta

Deity
Prowling in a PBEM near you!
Nov 2002
time: 00:29
  Old Post 01-02-2005 18:06 Visit Beta<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/lifer-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Nuclear
Calling in the OT'ers?


Che for president.

Nope - I am almost never there. I have no interest in that forum.

 
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