31-01-2005 01:16									#1
	18year old paddled at school Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

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quote: Jan 30, 11:09 AM EST 18-year-old student sues over paddling SAN ANTONIO (AP) -- When Jessica Serafin enrolled in a charter high school, her mother signed a form allowing administrators to paddle her as punishment. But by the time a summer school principal paddled her last June, Serafin was already 18 and legally an adult. Now she's suing the School of Excellence in Education, San Antonio's largest charter school, alleging it was wrong for the principal to paddle an adult student without her consent. She says the beating she received for leaving campus to get breakfast was so severe she had to go to the emergency room. The lawsuit was filed Jan. 10 in state district court. Last week, a notice was filed to move it to federal court. Advertisement Although the lawsuit also alleges civil rights violations and negligence, a key element in the case is her age and the fact she didn't consent, her attorney said. "This case is not about a crusade against corporal punishment," said Dan Hargove, her attorney. "It's not a crusade against charter schools. ... This case is about three adults holding down an adult female and beating her with a wooden paddle so bad that she ended up in the hospital." The school's attorney, Jeff Gately, said the lawsuit "contains some blatant falsehoods." Gately said he and several school officials investigated the girl's account and found it to be without merit. The principal's attorney declined to comment, saying he didn't want to try the case in the media. The School of Excellence in Education advocates an "old-school" approach to discipline. Uniforms must be tucked in, girls can wear only one pair of earrings, and boys must open doors and pull out chairs for their female peers. It is the only public school in Bexar County that paddles students. Serafin says the summer school principal, who is a named defendant in the lawsuit, hit her three or four times. She said she tried to block one of the blows and the paddle "smashed her hand." "I started screaming because I thought he had broke my hand," she said. Serafin said she went to the hospital because she could hardly walk after school and her hand was severely swollen. Her hand was put in a cast at the emergency room. State law allows parents to spank their minor children if the parent "reasonably believes the force is necessary to discipline the child or to safeguard or promote his welfare." But the law does not allow parents to use force on children who are 18 or older, Hargove said. Hargove contends the school was acting on behalf of Serafin's parents, and therefore, shouldn't have been allowed to paddle an adult student. But St. Mary's University law professor Gerald Reamey said another part of the law allows educators to use corporal punishment without age restrictions to "further the educational purpose or maintain discipline." Attorney Philip Marzec, who represents local school districts, said it is difficult for a plaintiff to prevail against a school district in a paddling lawsuit because they generally are immune from allegations of negligence relating to corporal punishment. But districts can be sued for civil rights violations, Marzec said. The plaintiff would have to show that a school policy or sanctioned practice led to the violation.

This incident is unbelievable. As parents if we spank our own kids we get charged with child abuse. I not so concerned with the sue aspect which i agree with, but more that the girl was 18 A legal adult shouldnt this be considered assault?

	31-01-2005 01:27									#3
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The question here is why the principal was not arrested for assault.

	31-01-2005 01:29									#4
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Another question is who are these people who need to have paddling rather than other forms of dicipline in order to maintain a good environment?

To me, even having the paddling issue is an obvious failure of this school.

	31-01-2005 01:34									#5
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I support paddling. Although not for kids that old of course.

	31-01-2005 01:38									#6
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To show how paddling is such as alien concept to me, I thought this thread was going to be about how an 18 year old leaving school was still unable to swim anything but a doggy paddle. I was a bit confused as to why that would be a threadworthy topic, so I clicked the link.

	31-01-2005 02:00									#7
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Who was it that was telling me San Antonio is not a hick town?

	31-01-2005 02:04									#8
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I would say at 18 the pain of paddling is a non issue

Probably the humiliation is 100 times worse.

	31-01-2005 02:06									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Who was it that was telling me San Antonio is not a hick town?

That would be me I dont consider this a hick town. The school is not a public one its a private charter school. But thats neither here nor there the girl in question was 18 a legal adult Her moms consent form should have been invalidated. Not to mention the paddler charged with assault.

	31-01-2005 02:07									#10
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According to the article it is a public charter school.

	31-01-2005 02:08									#11
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quote: Originally posted by The Emperor Fabulous Another question is who are these people who need to have paddling rather than other forms of dicipline in order to maintain a good environment? To me, even having the paddling issue is an obvious failure of this school.

It works, its expedient, and sometimes It is the only thing that works. There are just some ****ed up kids and yes I was one of them.

	31-01-2005 02:08									#12
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Its failure, pure and simple.

	31-01-2005 02:10									#13
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It is im sorry i put private. It is not regulated by any public school district rules. The public schools here dont allow corporal punishment.

	31-01-2005 02:12									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Whoha It works, its expedient, and sometimes It is the only thing that works. There are just some ****ed up kids and yes I was one of them.

I agree with you if this school was part of the juvenille justice however this student just left a campus to get breakfast.

	31-01-2005 02:14									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski I agree with you if this school was part of the juvenille justice however this student just left a campus to get breakfast.

the school has no business engaging in this behavior, only parents. I was speaking on corporeal punishment in general.

	31-01-2005 02:15									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Whoha the school has no business engaging in this behavior, only parents. I was speaking on corporeal punishment in general.

That was my whole point the student in question is 18 years old. she doesnt need parental consent she is herself an adult student.
The parent in this case did sign a consent to the punishment but that was when the student entered the school a few years back. however since she is 18 i think this is wrong.

	31-01-2005 02:19									#17
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I'd hit it.

	31-01-2005 02:19									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Who was it that was telling me San Antonio is not a hick town?

Go away if you don't have anything constructive to add.

Do I have to tell your mom you are gay?

ACK!

	31-01-2005 02:21									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Tuberski Go away if you don't have anything constructive to add. Do I have to tell your mom you are gay? ACK!

Very dumb post to make, I'm going to assume you know the history behind that from Poly.

	31-01-2005 02:23									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Very dumb post to make, I'm going to assume you know the history behind that from Poly.

Yeah, the way you whined about it was classic.

ACK!

	31-01-2005 02:24									#21
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See you in a week...

	31-01-2005 02:26									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski The parent in this case did sign a consent to the punishment but that was when the student entered the school a few years back. however since she is 18 i think this is wrong.

That's a terrible arugment. Why is it wrong to assault someone when they're 18 but ok when they're 17 or 16?

	31-01-2005 02:26									#23
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The whole point of this thread is corporeal punishment, not San Antonio being a hick town.

But you have to throw your two cents(canadian) in.

ACK!

	31-01-2005 02:28									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Tuberski The whole point of this thread is corporeal punishment, not San Antonio being a hick town. But you have to throw your two cents(canadian) in. ACK!

It's a suitable argument to make that it's obviously a very hickish culture that condones corporate punishment, at any rate.

What you did is throw a very personal insult (nay, a threat), completely unrelated to this topic.

It was out of line.

	31-01-2005 02:29									#25
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There is nothing wrong with this type of punishment. There is dicipline and then there is abuse, and it is not hard for rational people to tell the difference.

When I was a kid I would take a week of grounding if I had a good smart as comment to say, very stubborn. But when my father went for the belt I shut the **** up.

quote: Its failure, pure and simple.

Failure at what, dicipline. Does that mean I have failed if I have to use grounding? Yelling? No dinner? It is simply another tool. One that obviously is used enough in this day and age.

	31-01-2005 02:29									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Asher It's a suitable argument to make that it's obviously a very hickish culture that condones corporate punishment, at any rate. What you did is throw a very personal insult (nay, a threat), completely unrelated to this topic. It was out of line.

No, you were trolling pure and simple.

Very personal insult? You mean like calling me an idiot?

ACK!

	31-01-2005 02:30									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Patroklos There is nothing wrong with this type of punishment. There is dicipline and then there is abuse, and it is not hard for rational people to tell the difference.

So I take it you don't consider yourself to be rational?

quote: She says the beating she received for leaving campus to get breakfast was so severe she had to go to the emergency room.

That's abuse, not punishment.

	31-01-2005 02:31									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Tuberski Very personal insult? You mean like calling me an idiot? ACK!

No, they are in no way remotely comparable.

	31-01-2005 02:32									#29
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quote: It's a suitable argument to make that it's obviously a very hickish culture that condones corporate punishment, at any rate.

What is hickish? Please define, beacause as of right now you have just shown yourself to be a biggoted steriotyper. I guess it is okay for me to say poor and black are synonomous.

	31-01-2005 02:32									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Asher No, they are in no way remotely comparable.

Sure it is, but then I'm not gay and you aren't a smoker.

BTW, I would never out you, that's your job.

ACK!