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Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:27
  Old Post 01-02-2005 23:43 Visit Asher's homepage!
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And so it begins: Same-sex marriage law tabled federally in Canada Get a bigger avatar today!

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/.../916989-cp.html

quote:
Same-sex law tabled
Adoption rights next fight: MP

OTTAWA (CP) - The federal government's contentious gay marriage bill has begun what's sure to be a very bumpy ride through the House of Commons.

Justice Minister Irwin Cotler introduced the bill Tuesday amid loud praise and withering criticism. The NDP, the Bloc Quebecois and most Liberals support same-sex marriage, which is already permitted in several provinces. But most Conservatives and some Liberals promise to oppose the bill in an effort to protect the traditional definition of marriage.

Prime Minister Paul Martin defended the bill Tuesday, trumpeting that "Canada is a country where minorities are protected."

But he also recognized concerns about religious rights, repeating that no church will be forced to perform gay marriages.

"There is no compromise when it comes to freedom of religion," Martin said.

Cotler said he knows that many Canadians are "struggling" with this issue, but added the courts have spoken and now it's up to Parliament to do what's right.

"It was the people of Canada, including minorities and gays and lesbians among them, who sought remedy and redress from the courts in invoking the charter.

"I trust that this last stage of this constitutional drama . . . will be conducted with respect for the plurality of views and the plurality of perspectives."

NDP Leader Jack Layton said any member of his caucus who votes against the same-sex marriage bill will face unspecified consequences.

"If we oppose human rights for lesbians and gays, there should be consequences in caucus and that will be the case in our caucus," he said at a news conference in Montreal to announce the hiring of former leadership candidate Pierre Ducasse as an advisor on Quebec.

The government wasted no time introducing the hot-button issue - it comes on the second day of the spring parliamentary session and in the face of increasingly organized campaign from Canadian pulpits to kill the bill.

Roman Catholic church groups have joined forces with Muslim, Hindu, Sikh and Orthodox Jewish groups to defeat the legislation. Their alliance represents the strongest and best organized political effort by Canadian religious institutions in decades.

Catholics were urged last weekend to write their MPs on the issue.

Not all churches oppose the legislation. The United Church of Canada stands solidly with the bill.

"Marriage will be enhanced, not diminished, religious freedom will be protected, not threatened, and Canadian society will be strengthened, not weakened, as a result of this legislation," said Rev. Jim Sinclair, general secretary of the United Church's General Council.

In the last four years the issue has entangled politicians, prelates and judges from across the country, including the justices of the Supreme Court of Canada.

Judges in several provinces and one territory cleared the way for the bill with an unbroken string of decisions saying same-sex marriage is legal.

Some politicians and church leaders remain unsure. Some religious politicians, including Martin and several members of his cabinet, have agonized over the issue.

Martin, a Catholic, has told his cabinet ministers to support the bill. Backbench MPs have been left free to chose yea or nay. A number of Liberals say they will vote nay.

NDP Leader Jack Layton ordered his members to support the legislation, saying a human rights issue is no place for a free vote. However, Manitoba New Democrat Bev Desjarlais says she'll vote No anyway.

The Bloc is generally solid in its support for the bill.

The Conservatives have supporters on both sides of the issue, although leader Stephen Harper has urged amendments to the bill to allow civil unions for same-sex couples, while preserving the traditional definition of marriage.

The Liberal legislation has been hanging fire since the summer of 2003, when the government of then-prime minister Jean Chretien sent it to the Supreme Court for a review. The Martin government expanded the scope of the reference a year ago.

The high court ruled in December that same sex marriages are constitutional, following more than two years of favourable lower court rulings that produced hundreds of same-sex marriages across Canada.

MRT144 is offline MRT144
Chieftain
Seattle Washington
Oct 2002
time: 21:27
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canada is going to burn in eternity!

Odin is offline Odin
Prince
Biology Nerd at Minnesota State University Moorhead
Sep 2000
time: 23:27
  Old Post 02-02-2005 00:08
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I head on MPR last night that Catholic priests are telling their congegations to oppose this, time for you canucks to take the RCC's tax-exempt status away (you guys have that, I am assuming)...

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Odin
I head on MPR last night that Catholic priests are telling their congegations to oppose this, time for you canucks to take the RCC's tax-exempt status away (you guys have that, I am assuming)...

Yeah, the vast majority of religious organizations out there are actively opposing this, even though the proposed bill puts, in writing, religious protections in place...

Richelieu is offline Richelieu
Warlord
Gatineau
Dec 2001
time: 00:27
  Old Post 02-02-2005 00:21
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This is going to be interesting. I personally will let my MP know that she will not get my vote again if she goes against this bill.

Kontiki is offline Kontiki
Settler
Canada
Aug 2001
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  Old Post 02-02-2005 00:23
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I presume this will make Ben happy. He's been harping for a long time that it should be put to a vote in parliament. If it passes, he'll have nothing to complain about.

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:27
  Old Post 02-02-2005 00:25 Visit Asher's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Kontiki
I presume this will make Ben happy. He's been harping for a long time that it should be put to a vote in parliament. If it passes, he'll have nothing to complain about.

He'll want a referendum when it passes in parliament.

Odin is offline Odin
Prince
Biology Nerd at Minnesota State University Moorhead
Sep 2000
time: 23:27
  Old Post 02-02-2005 00:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Kontiki
I presume this will make Ben happy. He's been harping for a long time that it should be put to a vote in parliament. If it passes, he'll have nothing to complain about.


This post confused me untill I rembered that the cabinet usually makes the laws in a parlimentary system...

St Leo is offline St Leo
King of Scenario League
Member of the Apolyton Social Democratic Party
Jul 2005
time: 00:27
  Old Post 02-02-2005 00:28 Visit St Leo<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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"Canada is a homo-fascist state."
- Rev. Fred Phelps

OMG OMG OMG WE ARE ALL GOING TO BE TURNED INTO PILLARS OF SALT OMG OMG OMG.

Flubber is offline Flubber
Emperor
With a view of the Rockies
Aug 2000
time: 22:27
  Old Post 02-02-2005 00:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher

He'll want a referendum when it passes in parliament.


and would find something else to want if it passed a referendum .

Seriously, to some of the "religious", nothing less than an explicit message from God would satisfy them.


The act will pass as it should but it will be interesting watching some of the members of parliament try to wriggle on this one. I think this is the type of issue that can only cost a politican votes since no matter which side you choose, the other side will probably make a point of voting against you for a long long time

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:27
  Old Post 02-02-2005 00:43 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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Homo-fascist? What's the SA got to do with Canada?

Last Conformist is offline Last Conformist
King
of Calakmul
Jul 2003
time: 06:27
  Old Post 02-02-2005 00:48
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quote:
Originally posted by St Leo
"Canada is a homo-fascist state."
- Rev. Fred Phelps

OMG OMG OMG WE ARE ALL GOING TO BE TURNED INTO PILLARS OF SALT OMG OMG OMG.

Only the lucky of you. The rest will be forced to participitate in gay orgies and wear purple clothes.

Kontiki is offline Kontiki
Settler
Canada
Aug 2001
time: 00:27
  Old Post 02-02-2005 00:50
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I'm curious what kind of infighting is going to come about from that NDP MP who refuses to follow the party line.

Pekka is offline Pekka
Chieftain
em seu burro dos pais!
Feb 2002
time: 07:27
  Old Post 02-02-2005 00:52
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Yes will be interesting.. I mean we can take liberal countries and all that, but a bill of this sort will be tough everywhere. There will be hard opposion. We will see. I predict, it will get leveled. Sorry Asher.

Oncle Boris is offline Oncle Boris
Prince
Once in a brown moon
Aug 2001
time: 00:27
  Old Post 02-02-2005 00:52
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quote:
Originally posted by St Leo
"Canada is a homo-fascist state."
- Rev. Fred Phelps


Richelieu is offline Richelieu
Warlord
Gatineau
Dec 2001
time: 00:27
  Old Post 02-02-2005 00:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Last Conformist

Only the lucky of you. The rest will be forced to participitate in gay orgies and wear purple clothes.


Purple!!! That's disgusting!!!

Odin is offline Odin
Prince
Biology Nerd at Minnesota State University Moorhead
Sep 2000
time: 23:27
  Old Post 02-02-2005 02:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Richelieu


Purple!!! That's disgusting!!!


American footbal fans in Minnesota wear it all the time. I bet next Phelps is going to call MN Viking fans gay.

Richelieu is offline Richelieu
Warlord
Gatineau
Dec 2001
time: 00:27
  Old Post 02-02-2005 02:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Odin


American footbal fans in Minnesota wear it all the time. I bet next Phelps is going to call MN Viking fans gay.


You guys should give a new nickname to Randy Moss : reverend Moon. That'd make Phelps day!

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:27
  Old Post 02-02-2005 02:41
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I believe Phelps has gone too far:

godhatessweden.com

Anyone who disses the lovely Princess Madeleine is an enemy of Ag.

Plus he's also said that endless fornication is wrong, which is all I can think about when I see her pic.

Odin is offline Odin
Prince
Biology Nerd at Minnesota State University Moorhead
Sep 2000
time: 23:27
  Old Post 02-02-2005 02:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Richelieu


You guys should give a new nickname to Randy Moss : reverend Moon. That'd make Phelps day!


SpencerH is offline SpencerH
King
Co-Ruler of my patch of land south of Birmingham Alabama
Feb 2002
time: 23:27
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Its about time.

embalmer42 is offline embalmer42
Warlord
The Great State Of Insanity
Jan 2000
time: 05:27
  Old Post 02-02-2005 04:57
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Since Paul wants a Canada where "minorities are protected", how long will it be before he legalizes polygyny?

Edit: changed quotes

Lord Nuclear is offline Lord Nuclear
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Jun 2002
time: 21:27
  Old Post 02-02-2005 05:06
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Too bad. It'll all change when I declare sole rule over the Canadian Empire.

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:27
  Old Post 02-02-2005 05:34 Visit Asher's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by embalmer42
Since Paul wants a Canada where "minorities are protected", how long will it be before he legalizes polygyny?

Edit: changed quotes

Because we also protect the rights of women, where they are usually exploited in polygamous relationships.

That whole argument is bullshit.

The same one could be used to go against laws that protect religious freedoms. "What's next, laws allowing people to plot terrorist acts?! WHERE DO WE DRAW THE LINE?!?!?"

JimmyCracksCorn is offline JimmyCracksCorn
Settler
Macedonia - Sovereign country north of Greece.
Dec 2002
time: 05:27
  Old Post 02-02-2005 05:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher

Because we also protect the rights of women, where they are usually exploited in polygamous relationships.

That whole argument is bullshit.

The same one could be used to go against laws that protect religious freedoms. "What's next, laws allowing people to plot terrorist acts?! WHERE DO WE DRAW THE LINE?!?!?"


I think the point he's making is that it opens up the definition of marriage and makes it unclear what will be included in the new one...

I'm all for it though

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
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  Old Post 02-02-2005 05:41
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Asher

Last Conformist is offline Last Conformist
King
of Calakmul
Jul 2003
time: 06:27
  Old Post 02-02-2005 06:03
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Polygamy + Swedish royal family = sandwich

Ben Kenobi is offline Ben Kenobi
Emperor
McGregornobi!
Oct 2002
time: 21:27
  Old Post 02-02-2005 09:54
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quote:

I presume this will make Ben happy. He's been harping for a long time that it should be put to a vote in parliament. If it passes, he'll have nothing to complain about.


Free vote in parliament.

I don't like this BS about the cabinet.

Hopefully some will have the cohones to vote even if they lose their cabinet positions.

Ben Kenobi is offline Ben Kenobi
Emperor
McGregornobi!
Oct 2002
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  Old Post 02-02-2005 09:55
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quote:

He'll want a referendum when it passes in parliament.


Nah.

"He's makin' a list.

Checkin' it twice..."

Ben Kenobi is offline Ben Kenobi
Emperor
McGregornobi!
Oct 2002
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  Old Post 02-02-2005 09:57
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quote:

Yeah, the vast majority of religious organizations out there are actively opposing this, even though the proposed bill puts, in writing, religious protections in place...


What about organisations like say, the Knights of Columbus? Would they also be protected?

 
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