04-02-2005 03:05									#151
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious You couldn't get the point if you were stuck with it.

You really do drive me nuts sometimes.

The overwhelming evidence is that intelligent people find ways to make very decent livings for themselves.

Some don't, but often they have other serious problems which make them next to unemployable, no matter what economic system they would be living under.

	04-02-2005 03:18									#152
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse You really do drive me nuts sometimes. The overwhelming evidence is that intelligent people find ways to make very decent livings for themselves.

quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse Some don't, but often they have other serious problems which make them next to unemployable, no matter what economic system they would be living under.

Or they have chosen to prioritize other things above what you or I might characterize as a decent living-- I'm thinking of people who might live in abject poverty whil attempting to give assistance.

or the very bright person that would rather read poetry than work more and is quite content to live on 25K a year

	04-02-2005 03:19									#153
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From a pure productivity point of view I'd have to call those "problems"...

	04-02-2005 03:20									#154
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I certainly haven't prioritised money in my life, but I'm still set to pull in 80 k by the time I'm 35 and continue a slow increase for the rest of my working life.

	04-02-2005 03:22									#155
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My girlfriend has prioritised money slightly more and will quite possibly make 150 k at some point before she's 40, despite having to "only" get a master's degree.

My cousin and his wife each pull in 6 figures with their CAs, etc.

	04-02-2005 03:23									#156
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What's a CA?

	04-02-2005 03:23									#157
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chartered accountant

	04-02-2005 03:25									#158
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first you get your BComm degree in finance or accountancy and then you go for more classes after a few years in the workforce, take an exam and get a CA

	04-02-2005 03:30									#159
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Like a CPA here.

CPAs can make very good money. very boring job, but good money.

I actually know one accountant who was corporate accountant in the CA central valley for several canneries. He saw that the spending was getting out of hand and that earnings weren't moving in the right direction. Despite his insisting to the owners that they change their ways and put more into marketing they did nothing and eventually went bankrupt. He pulled all his resources and exhausted all his contacts and bought the place out right. He now owns a very successful canning and jarring company that focuses on those silly little jars of pickled garlic, ginger, ect. for "gormet" snobs. Needless to say, he never has to worry about money, or even work for money again...

Yup, brains and determination go a long way, and if you're really smart you can minimize the amount of "work" you really have to do.

	04-02-2005 03:37									#160
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CPA and CA are different. He might have a CPA also (think he does)

CPAs specialise more in tax laws IIRC (could very well be wrong)

	04-02-2005 04:16									#161
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quote: Originally posted by Flubber Oh and kid I decided to read up a bit so I picked up a book entitled " A short history of communism"

Which one: Harvey or Greenburg? If it's the Harvey, I might return it. Having read the first few pages on Amazon, it's pretty bad so far.

	04-02-2005 04:35									#162
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Which one: Harvey or Greenburg? If it's the Harvey, I might return it. Having read the first few pages on Amazon, it's pretty bad so far.

its a library book-- I hardly ever purchase books

As for the author Ithink it may be Harvey but I don't actually recall.

If by bad you mean obviously anti-communist, this may be the one. After I took it home, I read the dust jacket foreword (written by someone else) and the rhetoric was pretty thick ( but no worse than the pro-American bullcrap in a book I picked up about terrorism.

I'll still read some of it to see if its worth continuing

	04-02-2005 04:39									#163
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I can handle anti-Communist. Pipes has a short book on the history of Communism that isn't as bad as what I read so far. I disagree with Pipes, but I don't find him distorting the facts.

	04-02-2005 04:50									#164
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quote: Originally posted by Flubber Oh and kid I decided to read up a bit so I picked up a book entitled " A short history of communism" -- It promises to give an analysis and comparison of the communist experience in a number of different countries. I think it will be enlightening and will share once I finish my current book on India

I guess so that you can accuss me of supporting govts that I don't support.

	04-02-2005 04:51									#165
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse You really do drive me nuts sometimes.

You're already nuts.

	04-02-2005 04:54									#166
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quote: Originally posted by Flubber Kid but 95% of people that respond to you fail to see what the point is . . . Now perhaps you are just so much smarter than everyone else that they just don't get your brilliance but I would look to other explainations

Actually I was thinking about that. It seems to me from experience that only certain types of people come to poly. You are clumped in with a bunch that seems bent on absurdities. This group is actually at least half of the people here. When I was a right winger I would never have said some of the ridiculous things that people say here.

	04-02-2005 06:20									#167
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And here I was thinking intelligent wasn't synonymous with industrious.

	04-02-2005 06:51									#168
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara I can handle anti-Communist. Pipes has a short book on the history of Communism that isn't as bad as what I read so far. I disagree with Pipes, but I don't find him distorting the facts.

Ya, Pipes is biased but the man definately has a brain.

	04-02-2005 09:03									#169
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quote: Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly Howard Jarvis' and the anti-property-tax movement got Proposition 13 passed in 1978, IIRC. Looks like cause and effect to me...

Agreed.

I think the propositions in general are very counterproductive.


The Vincent Thomas Bridge just got cool new blue lights though!

	04-02-2005 09:35									#170
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse That most intelligent people prefer jobs where they won't be bored. If an intelligent person wants to remain in an unchallenging job then bully for them.

Where is it written that challenging jobs pay the most? And isn't level of challenge subjective?

quote: I'm naturally better at it than almost anybody I know

Remember, men in however high a station ought to fear the humble - not the other way around...

	04-02-2005 10:00									#171
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Well, I am not intimate with the US or Canadian medical systems, though I can throw in my two cents.

Firstly, doctors generally charge obscene rates for a lot of their handiwork. Obscene bordering on immoral, considering the profession they chose. If you're in it for the money, please do yourself a favour, and quit medical school yesterday.

Secondly, supplies. Particularly medicines, medical supplies have ridiculous costs slapped onto them. Down here, the difference between getting a "laboratory" medicine and a "generic" medicine can mean an 75%-80% (upto 80%!) difference in price! 80% of the cost of producing medicine is going into the bloody patents for chrissake in a lot of cases!

I don't know the particular vissicitudes of the US or Canadian system regarding doctor malpractice insurance, et cetera, et cetera.

	04-02-2005 10:23									#172
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious . It seems to me from experience that only certain types of people come to poly. You are clumped in with a bunch that seems bent on absurdities. This group is actually at least half of the people here.

I think the cross section on here is somewhat representative of the range in society. So more than half are not absurd but the majority.


It does not suprise me that you find the majority absurd since it appears the majority finds you absurd. . I find it interesting that I am absurd for advocating essentially what is the current social democracy in Canada.

quote: Originally posted by Kidicious . When I was a right winger I would never have said some of the ridiculous things that people say here.

I agree that there are ridiculous right wing statements from my point of view but equally I find ridiculous left wing statements. I find myself very much in the centre of the political spectrum here usually but I am an issue by issue guy

	04-02-2005 10:31									#173
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quote: Originally posted by Flubber I find it interesting that I am absurd for advocating essentially what is the current social democracy in Canada.

I'm not talking about the policies you advocate. I'm talking about the claims that you make when you argue for them, like saying that anyone can do anything, and if someone finds them in disadvantaged situations it's always their fault. I used to beleive something like that, but you seem to be a little bit far out, but you aren't alone by any means.

I think it has something to do with computer games, but it's just a thought.

	04-02-2005 10:41									#174
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quote: It does not suprise me that you find the majority absurd since it appears the majority finds you absurd.

	04-02-2005 11:14									#175
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious I'm talking about the claims that you make when you argue for them, like saying that anyone can do anything, and if someone finds them in disadvantaged situations it's always their fault. .

Err I have NEVER said anything of the like. I always talk or intend to talk about MOST PEOPLE. Almost nothing applies to everyone or applies "always" if we are talking about individual opportunity or circumstances. Sorry but it gets tedious to have to add the qualifier to EVERY sentence.

So no anyone can't do anything. But people with skill or drive can get ahead (barring catastrophe). yes things can happen that can prevent a given individual from getting ahead but on average this ability exists

I have a cousin that is unemployed and on welfare-- Misfortune ?? Nope he dropped out of university at age 19 to move in with a girl, quickly got married and intentionally and with planning has now had 3 children (well the twins were a shock). They seem to be dirt poor and are living on government assistance. Both are able bodied and bright enough to get into a degree granting university. Yet there they are at age 22 on welfare. Who's "fault" is their situation?

The point of this rant. ?? Lots of folks are not victims of misfortune but of their own conscious choices. I grew up in newfoundland where welfare is a way of life for many-- I have seen it hundreds of times LITERALLY. People that work hard got ahead and others sat back and complained about the government. It is an area with close to 20% unemployment.

When you write, I envision a society which is an even bigger welfare society with all the problems and abuises that come with that. Now the biggest incentive to get off the dole is that you can attain a "better way of life". Take away the incentive and I fear what happens. They call it the "welfare trap" for a reason.

Another anecdote . . The office assistant at my first job was a wonderful woman of about age 50. She and her husband worked lower paid jobs and lived in a poorer neighborhood. She related to me that on many summer evenings when she and her husband were walking home, their similarly aged neighbor (ablebodied but on welfare) would give them a nod from his patio, and tip his beer to them, take an appreciative swig and call out "thanks taxpayer". It peeved her but her son went to college and got a good job.

The point of yet another anecdote? Your theories ( or mine for that matter), if implemented have impacts on lots of individuals like these.