03-02-2005 04:49									#1
	1/2 U.S. personal bankruptcies from medical bills Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

700,000 personal bankruptcies each year, half the total, are due to medical bills a study relseased tonight is showing. What's worse, 75% of those were with people who were covered with health insurance.

We sure have the best system in the world. Yup.

Can't find a linky at the moment, but it was on both NPR and ABC News.

	03-02-2005 05:03									#2
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http://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory?id=463499

	03-02-2005 05:08									#3
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bankruptcies arnt solely cuz they needed to get treatment - they spent way too much before on SUVs and other consumer items without saying any, and then when they got sick they ran out. this happens for two reasons: 1. govt, and 2. the govt. my first point is that the govt takes too much of the poors money and in fact the poor shouldnt pay any taxes at all. the second point is that since the govt doesnt give incentives for people to save, they just continute to spend like no other, leadint to debt and zero savings.

	03-02-2005 05:09									#4
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national healthcare system

	03-02-2005 05:10									#5
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Leave it to a libertyrant to completely miss the point.

What usually happens, actually, is that due to their illness or injuries, people lose their jobs, and thus their insurance (since you have to pay for COPA out of your own pocket--but you have no income). Once that happens, the medical bills begin pilling on fast and furious.

The medical advisor on NPR said the best advice she could give is "don't get sick," and try and save more and get out of debt before something bad happens. Course, if we all did that, our economy would collapse.

	03-02-2005 05:12									#6
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quote: What usually happens, actually, is that due to their illness or injuries, people lose their jobs, and thus their insurance (since you have to pay for COPA out of your own pocket--but you have no income). Once that happens, the medical bills begin pilling on fast and furious.

once again, if they had saved money, they would be able to withstand this shock. second of all, you dont lose your job when you get sick/injured. show me a worker that got fired because of an illness or injury, and ill give you the number to mark geragos.

	03-02-2005 05:12									#7
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I'm currently unemployed. So I don't have health care. Basically, there is no way in hell I'm going to the doctor. Definately not a hospital.

As much as the goverment screws things up, we do need some sort of national health care system. I think increased corruption is worth the price we have to pay.

	03-02-2005 05:13									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia once again, if they had saved money, they would be able to withstand this shock. second of all, you dont lose your job when you get sick/injured. show me a worker that got fired because of an illness or injury, and ill give you the number to mark geragos.

who has the capability of saving $100,000 !!!

For example, the construction worker who recently shot a nail into his brain racked up $80,000 to $100,000 in medical bills. He does not have medical insurance.

	03-02-2005 05:16									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia once again, if they had saved money, they would be able to withstand this shock.

The average amount of debt incurred by medical bills over their insurance is $13,000. Even if you saved 5% of your income, it's unlikely that you'd be able to cover it, and would still be forced to file for bankruptcy.

quote: second of all, you dont lose your job when you get sick/injured. show me a worker that got fired because of an illness or injury, and ill give you the number to mark geragos.

That's only if its the result of a work injury. If you miss too much work because of of an illness, the company certainly can and will let you go. I've seen it happen to a coworker who was in the hospital for a month.

	03-02-2005 05:20									#10
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quote: who has the capability of saving $100,000 !!! For example, the construction worker who recently shot a nail into his brain racked up $80,000 to $100,000 in medical bills. He does not have medical insurance.

no one. but his union coulda done something for him besides doing deals with the mafia.

quote: That's only if its the result of a work injury. If you miss too much work because of of an illness, the company certainly can and will let you go. I've seen it happen to a coworker who was in the hospital for a month.

i dont buy that. being in the hospital for a month isnt that long for a serious injury.

quote: The average amount of debt incurred by medical bills over their insurance is $13,000. Even if you saved 5% of your income, it's unlikely that you'd be able to cover it, and would still be forced to file for bankruptcy.

or take a long, or get a payment plan. youd have that money if the govt didnt tax you so much. if they didnt take a payroll tax every paycheck, the poor could afford to withstand something like this financially. its your SS taxes that make this guy unable to pay his medical bills.

	03-02-2005 05:21									#11
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Funny how this doesn't happen in countries like Canada where the government taxes them even more.

	03-02-2005 05:21									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident I'm currently unemployed. So I don't have health care. Basically, there is no way in hell I'm going to the doctor. Definately not a hospital. As much as the goverment screws things up, we do need some sort of national health care system. I think increased corruption is worth the price we have to pay.

State organised and subsidised healthcare is actually a lot cheaper, more efficient and better quality than what you have right now. Only the richest can afford to see doctors equal to ours who treat us for almost free. (I pay 3 euros per call, I had a cosmetic surgery that cost me 4 euros to remove a mole from my nose)

	03-02-2005 05:23									#13
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Do you guys have to pay even for emergency treatment?

	03-02-2005 05:25									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Whaleboy Do you guys have to pay even for emergency treatment?

Why save someone who doesn't have any money to their name? It's bad for the economy.

	03-02-2005 05:27									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Whaleboy Do you guys have to pay even for emergency treatment?

Not only do we have to, its more expensive than anything else. Generally speaking, when you don't have health insurance, you avoid going to the doctor until it's life threatening. Then you go to the emergency room. Then you owe the big bucks and may have to go bankrupt. I still owe $325 on an asthma attack.

	03-02-2005 05:37									#16
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Whoah!

quote: Among those whose illnesses led to bankruptcy, out-of-pocket costs averaged $11,854 since the start of illness; 75.7 percent had insurance at the onset of illness." The average bankrupt person surveyed had spent $13,460 on co-payments, deductibles and uncovered services if they had private insurance. People with no insurance spent an average of $10,893 for such out-of-pocket expenses.

So not only is private health insurance failing to do the job, it costs more as well!!!

	03-02-2005 05:38									#17
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quote: Funny how this doesn't happen in countries like Canada where the government taxes them even more.

funny how in canada you have to wait forever to get a non-life threatning surgery done.

	03-02-2005 05:39									#18
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And I though Gridlock'd was fiction....

	03-02-2005 05:39									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia funny how in canada you have to wait forever to get a non-life threatning surgery done.

As opposed to in the U.S. where you don't get them at all if you don't have insurance.

	03-02-2005 05:39									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia no one. but his union coulda done something for him besides doing deals with the mafia.

He wasn't in a union, man.

	03-02-2005 05:40									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia once again, if they had saved money, they would be able to withstand this shock. second of all, you dont lose your job when you get sick/injured. show me a worker that got fired because of an illness or injury, and ill give you the number to mark geragos.

My mother? She had a stroke and cancer (the cancer caused the stroke) and while she was out her employer fired her. They had some policy of only allowing 60 days of medical leave.

	03-02-2005 05:41									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia funny how in canada you have to wait forever to get a non-life threatning surgery done.

No you don't. You have to wait a certain amount, but it certainly isn't forever.

	03-02-2005 05:45									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia funny how in canada you have to wait forever to get a non-life threatning surgery done.

I have a check-up with a specialist tomorrow, had to wait a full 3 days!!! and it costs me absolutely nothing.

	03-02-2005 05:45									#24
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quote: As opposed to in the U.S. where you don't get them at all if you don't have insurance.

where once again you can blame the repressive taxes that YOU want on the poor, and that YOU want to increase.

quote: He wasn't in a union, man.

you tellin me this construction worker wasnt in a union? i find that hard to believe.

	03-02-2005 05:48									#25
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So 350,000 personal bankruptcies were caused by medical bills. While that is a large number, and is very sad for a nation like ours, you also have to remember that it represents a very very small percentage of people in the US.

	03-02-2005 05:49									#26
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With how many being close to getting bankrupt.

	03-02-2005 05:50									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia where once again you can blame the repressive taxes that YOU want on the poor, and that YOU want to increase. you tellin me this construction worker wasnt in a union? i find that hard to believe.

He was working as a subcontractor, dude. Get the facts before you start bullshitting. Or is it easier to create throwaway lines about the mafia?

	03-02-2005 05:51									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia you tellin me this construction worker wasnt in a union? i find that hard to believe.

If he's just a laborer then most likely he wasn't in a union. Trades like welders and stone masons normally are though.

	03-02-2005 05:56									#29
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I believe this statistic, but it only tells part of the story. There are many whose considerable fortunes go into the rat hole because of medical bills, but they don't end up going bankrupt. Also, many of the people at the bottom can go on Medicaid. It's those people with property who then get sick who may find bankruptcy necessary.

	03-02-2005 06:31									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia where once again you can blame the repressive taxes that YOU want on the poor, and that YOU want to increase. you tellin me this construction worker wasnt in a union? i find that hard to believe.

most construction workers in my city are non union. This stems from the fact they are mexican mainly.

And unions are not all corrupt with the mafia. The one I used to be in certainly wasn't.