06-02-2005 05:01									#61
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker Uh, yeah, generally it's easier to manage when you have to work fewer hours.

So why do you think people should be working more - you want peopel to have a hard time for no reason?

quote: I highly doubt that.

Well, I suspect it's combination of the other two myself, but you have to wonder if they are more productive and efficient when they work a fraction of the time but have an equally (or perhaps even more) functional society.

Maybe it's the extra lesiure time that gives them that extra bit of focus and energy.

	06-02-2005 05:04									#62
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quote: Originally posted by General Ludd So why do you think people should be working more - you want peopel to have a hard time for no reason?

Are you really this stupid? If there's a certain amount you HAVE to pay to each employee, it's better to be able to employ people for 40 hours a week than 35, and 40 isn't bad. If a company wants to employ people for 35, more power to it.

	06-02-2005 05:05									#63
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker Which is why you make so much more than him, right? They aren't paid by the hour. My dad and most of the partners have a somewhat vested interest in bringing in more money, as all of the profits get PAID OUT to them. And you get bonuses for bringing in more money - my dad was one of about 20 partners (out of about 750), IIRC, that had over a million dollars in billings last year. EDIT: xpost

@ people who don't understand law partnerships.

	06-02-2005 05:05									#64
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker If there's a certain amount you HAVE to pay to each employee, it's better to be able to employ people for 40 hours a week than 35

Not for the employee.

And the employees outnumbers the employers - so it's utilitarian.

	06-02-2005 05:06									#65
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker Which is why you make so much more than him, right? They aren't paid by the hour. My dad and most of the partners have a somewhat vested interest in bringing in more money, as all of the profits get PAID OUT to them. And you get bonuses for bringing in more money - my dad was one of about 20 partners (out of about 750), IIRC, that had over a million dollars in billings last year. EDIT: xpost

If they aren' t paid per hour then it's rediculous to mention them.

	06-02-2005 05:07									#66
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quote: Originally posted by SnowFire As for being "unskilled," yes, unskilled laborers have fewer job options. Why do you want to make them even fewer? What about an unskilled laborer who has 3 kids, a wife who can't find work, and still wants to put his kids through college? He may be willing to work 50 hours a week to earn the money necessary. But France won't let him, because the government's infinite wisdom has decided that he'd rather have time off, not working, then being able to support his family.

That it what a minimum wage is for. (and a decent minnimum wage, like $9 or $10, not the pathetic amount it is now).

	06-02-2005 05:08									#67
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quote: Originally posted by General Ludd Not for the employee. And the employees outnumbers the employers - so it's utilitarian.

	06-02-2005 05:14									#68
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quote: Originally posted by General Ludd Not for the employee. And the employees outnumbers the employers - so it's utilitarian.

Not if the company goes out of business due to overseas competition that isn't so restricted and has to fire everyone.

	06-02-2005 05:15									#69
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quote: But in France the time is probably spent reading literature in cafes, writing poetry, or maybe a spot of painting.

No, those activities are only for the unemployed .

quote: That it what a minimum wage is for. (and a decent minnimum wage, like $9 or $10, not the pathetic amount it is now).

So then he's fired because his company can't afford him. He's better off now?

	06-02-2005 05:15									#70
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker Not if the company goes out of business due to overseas competition that isn't so restricted and has to fire everyone.

True, but all the industrialized nations should start reducing the work week. If they don't unemployment is going to get worse everywhere.

	06-02-2005 05:16									#71
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quote: Originally posted by BlackCat If they aren' t paid per hour then it's rediculous to mention them.

No it isn't. It's perfect evidence that one can work much more than 35 hours a week without horribly debilitating effects

	06-02-2005 05:17									#72
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Try this if anyone else is seriously curious about it. The right wingers will call it biased though.

Jeremy Rifkin

	06-02-2005 05:20									#73
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Here's how this thread has gone down:


People that have jobs = look at the 35 hour law favorably

Kids that are still in school and have never worked = Call the French lazy

	06-02-2005 05:22									#74
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quote: Originally posted by General Ludd You have to remember that we're talking about France, and not the USA. It's true that in the USA people would just use the time to stuff their faces with big macs and watch king of queens. But in France the time is probably spent reading literature in cafes, writing poetry, or maybe a spot of painting.

Or just making more frogs

	06-02-2005 05:23									#75
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Oerdin and Plato are students?

And why do I think that DanS won't agree with the 35 hour workweek either?

	06-02-2005 05:25									#76
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker Here's how this thread has gone down: People that have jobs = look at the 35 hour law favorably Kids that are still in school and have never worked = Call the French lazy

And what are you?

We all recall you as the 25- or guy

	06-02-2005 05:26									#77
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker Here's how this thread has gone down: People that have jobs = look at the 35 hour law favorably Kids that are still in school and have never worked = Call the French lazy

Lemme ask my dad what he thinks about this and get back to you...

	06-02-2005 05:26									#78
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker No it isn't. It's perfect evidence that one can work much more than 35 hours a week without horribly debilitating effects

Sure it is. What you states is that if there are a high outcome, then people are ready to work for it, but if you only get an hours paid more, then the cost are too high.

	06-02-2005 05:27									#79
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious True, but all the industrialized nations should start reducing the work week. If they don't unemployment is going to get worse everywhere.

That is the contradiction of Capitalism, increased efficency becomes greater unemplyment, so companies must use advertising to create artificial demand, hence the American obsession with conspicuous consumption. The whole ediface will all come down sooner or later, but the economists are too blinded by thier faith in Capitalism and Milton Freidman the Almighty to realize it, almost like religious fundies denying evolution.

	06-02-2005 05:27									#80
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Oerdin and Plato are students? And why do I think that DanS won't agree with the 35 hour workweek either?

Heh. And students these days work a lot more than most adults. At least us nerds do anyway. 12 hour schooldays

	06-02-2005 05:30									#81
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quote: Originally posted by PLATO The money is pretty good, but the stress sucks. I am taking my 1st two days off (other than holidays) in over two years on Monday and Tuesday. Bet my phone rings all day. Now what are the French complaining about? I'd be damn happy with just 40 hours a week!

Aren't you glad you voted Republican, so you have the "freedom" to work all that overtime.

	06-02-2005 05:32									#82
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Oerdin and Plato are students? And why do I think that DanS won't agree with the 35 hour workweek either?

As I remember Oerdin makes quite a bit of money not working, and I bet DanS does too.

	06-02-2005 05:33									#83
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quote: increased efficency becomes greater unemplyment

That old canard. I think we've increased efficiency a LOT since 1800... where this great unemployment has been is a good question .

quote: And students these days work a lot more than most adults. At least us nerds do anyway. 12 hour schooldays

Yep... its ridiculous. Hell, I work AND do school. I'm sure I 'work' over 50 hours a week (17 a week at the job, the rest in class and studying).

	06-02-2005 05:33									#84
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quote: Originally posted by Odin That is the contradiction of Capitalism, increased efficency becomes greater unemplyment, so companies must use advertising to create artificial demand, hence the American obsession with conspicuous consumption. The whole ediface will all come down sooner or later, but the economists are too blinded by thier faith in Capitalism and Milton Freidman the Almighty to realize it, almost like religious fundies denying evolution.

What's the BS about artificial demand? It's no more "artificial" than any other demand.

	06-02-2005 05:33									#85
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious As I remember Oerdin makes quite a bit of money not working, and I bet DanS does too.

Aroo? What in the Hell are you talking about?

	06-02-2005 05:42									#86
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker What's the BS about artificial demand? It's no more "artificial" than any other demand.

Artificial demands are those that are created by advertizing, and that diminish when advertizing stops. It's artificial because the demand has to be contatntly put into the consumer's mind, and isn't something the consumer comes up with on his own.

	06-02-2005 05:45									#87
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So? What's wrong with that? Most people wouldn't think "if only I had some sort of mechanical, gasoline-powered moving machine" had they not seen advertising for it (including informal advertising such as other people displaying such a wonder product ). Lots of very useful things are like that.

	06-02-2005 05:45									#88
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Or the consumer simply isn't informed of some great product. For example, with advertising people wouldn't know about the George Foreman Grill's greatness (love infomercials!). Frankly, I couldn't live without it!

	06-02-2005 05:48									#89
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Or the consumer simply isn't informed of some great product. For example, with advertising people wouldn't know about the George Foreman Grill's greatness (love infomercials!). Frankly, I couldn't live without it!

Try sell that gadget to a french worker

	06-02-2005 05:49									#90
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker So? What's wrong with that? Most people wouldn't think "if only I had some sort of mechanical, gasoline-powered moving machine" had they not seen advertising for it (including informal advertising such as other people displaying such a wonder product ). Lots of very useful things are like that.

Most ads are about getting you to by something even if you don't really need it.

oh, and Ming in 5... 4... 3...