06-02-2005 15:08									#151
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quote: Originally posted by Jaguar My Dad works 70.

Did you call him "Uncle" as a kid?

	06-02-2005 15:16									#152
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker Except that I was demonstrating that a 50-hour workweek wasn't a "debilitating effect". You're saying a 50-hour workweek is bad - why? - because it's a 50-hour workweek, of course.

Would you like to see your father more, or is his cash an acceptable substitute?

	06-02-2005 15:18									#153
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Can someone explain to me why you all are defending a policy that hasn't had the effect it was sold as providing and has in fact hindered the very thing it was supposed to have helped?

Because your original thread was boring, so it's moved to a more interesting side-track. Duh!

	06-02-2005 15:19									#154
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Why do the French work so much?

	06-02-2005 15:23									#155
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quote: Originally posted by el freako I have the exact figures Oerdin (no surprise there eh?) Productivty in OECD members, measured by GDP per hour worked (2002 @ PPPs) and expressed as a % of USA: 1st, Norway 132% 2nd, Luxembourg 125% 3rd, France 120% 4th Belgium 114% 5th, Netherlands 109% 6th, Ireland 106% 7th, Austria 102% 8th, Germany 102% 9th, United States 100% 10th, Denmark 98% 11th, Italy 96% 12th, Finland 92% 13th, Switzerland 91% 14th, United Kingdom 90% 15th, Sweden 89% 16th, Australia 83% 17th, Canada 83% 18th, Spain 77% 19th, Japan 75% 20th, Iceland 72% 21st, New Zealand 65% 22nd, Greece 65% 23rd, Portugal 54% 24th, Hungary 52% 25th, Czech Republic 42% 26th, Mexico 39% 27th, Slovakia 39% 28th, Poland 38% 29th, South Korea 31% 30th, Turkey 26% The full series is here

There we go. Japan- a nation in which the concept of wage-slavery is so deeply embedded that they invent words to cover death through over-work- ends up looking a bit slack.

Meanwhile Ireland, Norway and the Netherlands steam ahead. The future is all Guinness, cannabis, porn, tulips, and pickled herring.

	06-02-2005 15:27									#156
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I wonder why the Fins aren't first on that list. So they aren't only evil, but also lazy

	06-02-2005 15:30									#157
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There is no Finnish economy. The entire country gets by through sneaking across to Sweden and stealing shopping trollies and pets.

	06-02-2005 15:50									#158
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How many people have done a 72+ hour workweek ? I know many students who do that ( school + tutorial ) . I have done it myself . I have a 48 hour workweek . So I hope my opinions will not be dismissed out of hand by the elitists here who think themselves entitled to have their opinions respected not on the merits of their arguments , but by the range of their experience ( even if said experience is inadmissible ) .

And in case anyone has any doubt , I oppose any mandatory working time laws . Let the market ( i.e. , the individual(s) ) decide . It seems that this time , it is deciding in our ( the capitalists' ) favour .

	06-02-2005 16:21									#159
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quote: Originally posted by DanS However, for the last couple of decades, the decrease has taken a pause in the US, while it has continued outside the anglophone area.

I think the situation is more complex than that, during 1963-1983 average hours per year fell by 9.6% in the US compared with 16.2% in the EU15 so europe saw it's average hours fall by 7.4% more than the US did
In the next two decades (1983-2003) average hours fell by only 0.9% in the US but the rate of decline also slowed in the EU15 to 9.0%, the gap between the two did increace in the second period - but only to 8.2%.
In every country in europe the percentage fall in average hours was smaller during 1983-03 than in 1963-83 - in some the difference was dramatic, for example Sweden saw an 18.2% fall in average hours in 1963-83 but a 2.9% rise in 1983-03

quote: Originally posted by DanS To get a good sense of what's going on, it probably would make more sense to look at this as the total number of hours worked per capita per year, which would factor in the impact of retirement and vacations.

Happy to oblige

It was a very interesting exercise it was as well, some results below and the spreadsheet is attached to this post.

In 1963 there were 727 hours worked per head of population in the US compared to 861 in the EU15, in 1983 789 hours per head were worked in both and by 2003 the US had reached 860 and the EU 754 - so over the forty-year period the US and EU have changed places.

Germany saw the largest fall in hours worked per head over the period at 36%.

France has the lowest level of hours worked per head, at 564 this is only two-thirds of the US level

Almost all countries saw faster growth in hours worked per head during 1983-03 than during 1963-83 (the exceptions being Canada, Finland and Japan which saw slower growth and Germany and the United States which saw no change), the biggest turnaround was Spain which saw a 26% fall in 1963-83 turned into a 31% rise in 1983-03.

	06-02-2005 18:24									#160
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quote: Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp Did you call him "Uncle" as a kid?

	06-02-2005 18:31									#161
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin I'm unemployed but I imagine I still make more then you. Besides I shall be employed again soon. I've got two interviews coming up next week both of which are well paying.

Well I'm a 36 year old student, but that's a long story.

	06-02-2005 18:34									#162
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker That's not why they build in China as opposed to Africa. Where have I said jobs aren't going to China? In fact, that's what I did say, earlier. Jobs moving to a place != low unemployment.

There are many contributing factors to things. Low labor costs contribute to people operating in China. There is hardly ever one factor to things. That's why you have to be much more carefull about identifying cause and effect than your average polytubby.

	06-02-2005 18:50									#163
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker How is it particularly different from 35?

I thought you where a math wiz. Subtract 35 from 50, that's the difference.

	06-02-2005 18:53									#164
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Yeah, even if you work 20 hours a week, you are still working to live. It's silly to you aren't, unless you are welfare check collecting do-nothing.

Ehm, that's kinda of the point I was making. When you're working 20 hours a week (or as little as you can), you a working to live. When you are working 50+ hours a week (or as much as you can) you are living to work.

	06-02-2005 18:55									#165
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison So what? Life isn't about nothing but work. And you try doing ridiculous hours if you are doing something far more taxing than what you are doing. When you've grown up and have a real job, we'll talk about it again.

Ageist. See avatar.

	06-02-2005 19:04									#166
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quote: Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp There is no Finnish economy. The entire country gets by through sneaking across to Sweden and stealing shopping trollies and pets.

The award for the funniest post in this thread goes to you

	06-02-2005 19:06									#167
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Come on Ozzy. School is not a real job. College is not even a job. Job = stress and responsibility.

	06-02-2005 19:15									#168
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Oh please, I know jobs, and I know school. Jobs are easier.

School has no lack of stress and responsibility. Its all false, useless responsability/stress, but that doesn't change the fact that it exists and is important for school.

	06-02-2005 19:22									#169
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Come on Ozzy. School is not a real job. College is not even a job. Job = stress and responsibility.

That says something about the standard of American higher education then cause damn hell, uni is stressing at the moment.

	06-02-2005 19:27									#170
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quote: Originally posted by Starchild That says something about the standard of American higher education then cause damn hell, uni is stressing at the moment.

Well it can be, but you can always take classes over. Jobs are for real.

	06-02-2005 20:47									#171
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College is difficult, and can be very stressing. However, once upon a time, my father gave me a piece of advice...

"Enjoy college while you are there... because once you graduate, you have to join the real world"

Unless you are doing brain dead work or manual labor, a job is harder and far more demanding and stressful than going to school.

	06-02-2005 21:00									#172
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quote: Ehm, that's kinda of the point I was making. When you're working 20 hours a week (or as little as you can), you a working to live. When you are working 50+ hours a week (or as much as you can) you are living to work.Ehm, that's kinda of the point I was making. When you're working 20 hours a week (or as little as you can), you a working to live. When you are working 50+ hours a week (or as much as you can) you are living to work.

But you're not. Even working 50 hours a week you are working to live. I mean the only way you can be said to 'live to work' is if work takes up 50% of your time, which 50 hours a week definetly does not.

	06-02-2005 21:03									#173
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This is very true.. besides, you can't 'screw up' in college like you can in real life. I mean, you screw up, well it happens. In business world you screw up, you might be responsible for it. The delivery is expected more, because it has real resources attached to it, where as in college you can.. experiment .

We did good sending people to Sweden in 70s for better job opportunities, it turns out it really worked out for the Swedes Things are again getting little hectic around here so I think we should send the second patch over there. This time we hope they are sober when they arrive, and that they are not armed.

	06-02-2005 21:11									#174
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: Ehm, that's kinda of the point I was making. When you're working 20 hours a week (or as little as you can), you a working to live. When you are working 50+ hours a week (or as much as you can) you are living to work.Ehm, that's kinda of the point I was making. When you're working 20 hours a week (or as little as you can), you a working to live. When you are working 50+ hours a week (or as much as you can) you are living to work. I mean the only way you can be said to 'live to work' is if work takes up 50% of your time, which 50 hours a week definetly does not.

Read what I said again.


But 50 hours a week is close to half your time. 56 hours is the breaking point, when you are spending the equivelant of 8 hours of every day of the week working (with presumably 8 hours of sleep and 8 hours of leisure). Of course, it doesn't usually work that way - you're more likely to be spending 10 hours a day working only on the weekdays, in which case you are spending more than half your time working on more than half the days in the week, albeit with two days of no obligation.

	06-02-2005 21:15									#175
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The appeal of a 35 hour work week and a decent standard of living is...... tremendous.

I have an OVERWHELMING hatred of France and its people but this almost makes me want to move to France.... how is job stability there :?

	06-02-2005 21:18									#176
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quote: Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp Would you like to see your father more, or is his cash an acceptable substitute?

I see him all the time. He gets home when I'm done with swim practice/homework.

Hell, during crew season I get home after he does.

	06-02-2005 21:20									#177
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quote: Originally posted by General Ludd I thought you where a math wiz. Subtract 35 from 50, that's the difference.

Are you really this stupid or just trolling?

	06-02-2005 21:20									#178
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Is it wrong that all I want out of life is any 40 hour a week job that is a reasonable amount of labor and provides a reasonable standard of living :? I'd do ANY job if it pays decent and is DEPENDABLE... I really don't want to be sacked in 2 years because of corporate bullshit.

Right now i'm pre-law.... .

	06-02-2005 21:21									#179
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quote: Read what I said again.

It's bollocks, but I read it again just to please you . I'm sure Japher's dad can work much more (it's a law firm, there is always work).

quote: But 50 hours a week is close to half your time.

But not there. Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and thermonuclear warfare.

	06-02-2005 21:23									#180
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker Are you really this stupid?

I'm not the one who's having trouble subtracting 35 from 50.