07-02-2005 09:56									#91
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quote: Originally posted by PLATO So many interesting posts... 1st) Real Christians don't care when Christ returns. They are taught to live their lives as if every day was their last (morally speaking).

But most of them think he is coming soon, and that has to factor in to their decision making.

quote: 3rd) Even if Christians knew when Christ was returning it would not cause them to change their planning for the future. We were taught the lesson of the talents.

What is the lesson of the talents?

	07-02-2005 09:59									#92
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quote: Originally posted by PLATO That's your opinion. It isn't mine. Respectfully, we disagree.

It is just what I see from a lot of christians.. these days. All they do is waste weekends at church...

	07-02-2005 10:00									#93
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious What is the lesson of the talents?

Asking me to proselitize on 'Poly?

However, here is my source :

http://www.bible.com/

Good Luck!

	07-02-2005 10:02									#94
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo All they do is waste weekends at church...

One of my favorite sayings:

"Going to Church doesn't make you anymore of a Christian than going to a garage makes you a mechanic."

	07-02-2005 10:04									#95
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quote: Originally posted by PLATO One of my favorite sayings: "Going to Church doesn't make you anymore of a Christian than going to a garage makes you a mechanic."

Good point. But why waste your life worrying about what comes after? As an atheist existentialist I believe that there is nothing after this life, therefore naturally I cherish the life I have on earth a lot more.

	07-02-2005 10:10									#96
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo Good point. But why waste your life worrying about what comes after? As an atheist existentialist I believe that there is nothing after this life, therefore naturally I cherish the life I have on earth a lot more.

All life is a gift...weather this life or the next. True Christians do not worry in the least about "what comes next". As we see life as a gift from God, we also cherish the life that we have on this Earth.

As an aside...There seems to be a large misconception as to what Christians really believe. The Christian religion has been so misrepresented that one who doesn't study it can easily be mislead by what it is and what it truly stands for. Many here on 'Poly make me laugh at their misconceptions...many of the stories they post make me cry at how some people bastardize true Christianity.

	07-02-2005 10:13									#97
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quote: Originally posted by PLATO All life is a gift...weather this life or the next. True Christians do not worry in the least about "what comes next". As we see life as a gift from God, we also cherish the life that we have on this Earth. As an aside...There seems to be a large misconception as to what Christians really believe. The Christian religion has been so misrepresented that one who doesn't study it can easily be mislead by what it is and what it truly stands for. Many here on 'Poly make me laugh at their misconceptions...many of the stories they post make me cry at how some people bastardize true Christianity.

I am biased against christians for some obvious reasons. I just don't like their beliefs, or monotheism to begin with. That's my own view. True christianity? Hah.. I wonder what that is.. the same thing that put me through misery in the 9th grade because I happened to be gay and unfortunately went to a christian school...

	07-02-2005 10:18									#98
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo I am biased against christians for some obvious reasons. I just don't like their beliefs, or monotheism to begin with. That's my own view. True christianity? Hah.. I wonder what that is.. the same thing that put me through misery in the 9th grade because I happened to be gay and unfortunately went to a christian school...

If you were judged by your fellow man, then that person was not a true Christian. Real Christianity is acceptence...not judgement. This is part of the bastardization of Christianity. Several examples of how God feels about this are present in the bible and quite well known. Such as:

Judge not lest you be judged, and

Let you who is without sin cast the first stone.

Christ consorted with prostitutes and criminals...even sending a condemned theif to heaven. Wonder how that school would have felt about him?

	07-02-2005 10:21									#99
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quote: Originally posted by PLATO If you were judged by your fellow man, then that person was not a true Christian. Real Christianity is acceptence...not judgement. This is part of the bastardization of Christianity. Several examples of how God feels about this are present in the bible and quite well known. Such as: Judge not lest you be judged, and Let you who is without sin cast the first stone. Christ consorted with prostitutes and criminals...even sending a condemned theif to heaven. Wonder how that school would have felt about him?

Uh huh... acceptance? That's a word that isn't common in the bible at all. Afterall it castes me off as committing a sin everytime I am with my guy. I don't think that is too tolerant let alone accepting.

	07-02-2005 10:25									#100
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo Uh huh... acceptance? That's a word that isn't common in the bible at all. Afterall it castes me off as committing a sin everytime I am with my guy. I don't think that is too tolerant let alone accepting.

Who am I to judge you? I am but a man like you. The Bible says that there is no degree to sin...In other words, no sin is greater( or worse) than any other. It also tells us that noone is without sin. So how does that make you any different than anyone else? That's not for me or any person to say. The stigma that has been attached to being gay by many in the church is from their own fear...not from the bible.

	07-02-2005 10:28									#101
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quote: Originally posted by PLATO Who am I to judge you? I am but a man like you. The Bible says that there is no degree to sin...In other words, no sin is greater( or worse) than any other. It also tells us that noone is without sin. So how does that make you any different than anyone else? That's not for me or any person to say. The stigma that has been attached to being gay by many in the church is from their own fear...not from the bible.

I'm still going to go after christianity. That's in my nature. I'm not going to fold when you talk about the sugar-coated version of the doctrine of hatred.

	07-02-2005 10:31									#102
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo I'm still going to go after christianity. That's in my nature. I'm not going to fold when you talk about the sugar-coated version of the doctrine of hatred.

I understand. I can't say as I blame you given your experience. But the version your going after is coated allright...and not in sugar. Just one request...let truth be your goal.

	07-02-2005 10:33									#103
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quote: Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar It is quite interesting, because here in Utah when someone begins trying to convert you - even if they are extremly close friends! - they adopt a very different way of speaking and presenting themselves

I see that too. Trying to put the best foot forward. All people have their own issues. When you start talking about what you believe, it brings what you should be doing closer to heart. If only I could keep my beliefs manifest in my everyday life, but alas...I am but a man.

	07-02-2005 10:33									#104
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quote: Originally posted by PLATO I understand. I can't say as I blame you given your experience. But the version your going after is coated allright...and not in sugar. Just one request...let truth be your goal.

Oh the version I'm going after is coated in sugar alright, and it is hollow inside. Just like christianity as a whole. Hollow.

	07-02-2005 10:35									#105
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo Oh the version I'm going after is coated in sugar alright, and it is hollow inside. Just like christianity as a whole. Hollow.

Again...we respectfully disagree.

	07-02-2005 10:46									#106
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara According to author Sam Harris, whom I just saw speak on C-SPAN2, 22% of Americans believe that Christ will definately be back within 50 years, and another 22% believe he will probably be back in the next fifty years. Do you realize the policy implications of this? There's no reason to plan for the future, cuz there isn't going to be one. We don't need social security because God will provide in the new millenium. We don't need to protect the environment, because God will provide. We don't need to worry about racking up an unpayable debt, cuz it won't need to be repaid! Christians are destroying America! edit: spelling fixes

I think this is a drop from previous years

JM
(I would probably answer probably)

	07-02-2005 10:47									#107
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You shouldn´t confuse christian fundamentalists (who often also believe the bible to be literally true) with all christs around the world, Fez.
As far as my experience goes, christian fundamentalists are those who are more prone to show the behavior you describe,
whereas the christians who rather incorporate some kinsd of "christian spirit" into their everydays life, rather than to believe in every word of the bible, are more open to other ways of life (and don´t try to judge them [or desperately try to convert you to their beliefs ])

	07-02-2005 10:48									#108
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[QUOTE] Originally posted by chegitz guevara


You forget that the real Christ isn't coming back to spread peace and love in an Aquarian, peacenik way, but to bring war and death and destruction. He will use his magical powers to destroy the unbelievers, and then all the Christians will be resurected and a thousand year riegn of peace will begin.

Unless you're a Dispensationalist, in which case the saved will be raptured into heave, at which point a seven year period of tribulations will begin, with Satan leading an army of darkness against the left-behind who realize the errors of their ways. Then Christ will return, and the forces of evil will be swept away, etc.

Either way, they expect Christ to se his God-powers to change the world. It doesn't matter what governments think since all governments are Earthly, and thus in league with the Devil (except for the current U.S. government, where the saintly George Bush is leading the righteous to struggle against Satan). [/QUOTE

none of these is what SDAs beleive

Jon Miller]

	07-02-2005 10:55									#109
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what was the thing anyway?

was it

Christ will come in the next 50 years
Christ probably will come in the next 50 years
Christ will not come in the next 50 years

because than I would answer probably

Jon Miller

	07-02-2005 11:42									#110
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There seem to be some polls which speak the same language as the Poll Harris mentiones:

According to a poll from 2004, mentioned in the S
Washington times, for example, 61 % of all Americans believe the Story of Creation within the bible to be literal true.
Among protestant evangelists the percentage is even around 90%:
http://www.washtimes.com/national/2...13955-2061r.htm

And here we have a nice collection on various polls concerning religion which were made within the USA in 2004 (with the exact questions and percentages for every option)
http://www.pollingreport.com/religion.htm

	07-02-2005 11:43									#111
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Isn't a literal belief of the Second Coming a fundamentalist thing?

	07-02-2005 11:45									#112
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I consider myself a fundamentalist

Jon Miller

	07-02-2005 13:18									#113
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Fundamentalists... are very... hateful people... jon do you really think so?

	07-02-2005 15:23									#114
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So Jesus is coming soon?

I'd better get some shopping done, and do the breakfast dishes.

Does he take proper coffee or decaff. ?

	07-02-2005 15:33									#115
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo Uh huh... acceptance? That's a word that isn't common in the bible at all. Afterall it castes me off as committing a sin everytime I am with my guy. I don't think that is too tolerant let alone accepting.

I don't think condemnation of homosexual practices is essential in Christianity.
Bah, look at episcopal church...

	07-02-2005 18:47									#116
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IQ is to measure intelligence
EQ is to measure emtional intelligence.
I score heigh on both scales and still I believe that Jesus might very wel return within the next 50 years. I can't be sure on that though.

Besides that, what's the problem? Most obviously 50% of all americans thinks he or she will die within the next 50 years (and is most probably right on that)
Does that mean that we have no future? No long-term planning?

There are some good reasons to assume that Jesus' 2nd coming may be close:

- The 7th king (Rev 17) has come and gone (Hitler)
- the jews return from the diaspora
- the knowlegde has multiplied
- Love is cooling down
- Humanity is get more and more close to God, reaching the nr 666, the number of man in the last days
- globalisation
- the gospel has almost spread over the entire earth (matthew 24)
- the fall has started (people stopping believing the christian faith by large numbers)
- the biblical middle east has return after ages of ottoman oppression. (israel, palestinians, iran, irak, egypt.... they're all back!)

I'm not sure if Christ would return within the next 50 years, but if I weren't a christian, I would for sure start to wonder since 1948....
but oh well, every fundamentalist atheists can easily find reasons to renounce the bible, even if amazing prophecies like the re-establashing of the state of israel get fullfilled

Oh well, most of you most propably will declare anyone who believes in the 2nd coming of Christ to be a fool if Jesus would be standing on your toes anyway

And now all stop working, you'll die in 50 years anyway, and all you have done will be gone and forgotten in 1000 years (very optimistic)
All you do is useless and makes no sence. Why didn't you commit suicide anyway? Be happy there are christians who believe in the 2nd coming, they have somethign to live for!

	07-02-2005 18:52									#117
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quote: Originally posted by CyberShy Besides that, what's the problem? Most obviously 50% of all americans thinks he or she will die within the next 50 years (and is most probably right on that) Does that mean that we have no future? No long-term planning?

Plenty of reasons to want things to be good after we die. People don't just care about themselves. This is what creates good policy. Only caring about yourself or thinking that the world will end anyway is what creates bad policy.

	07-02-2005 20:03									#118
	Re: 44% of USians think Christ Will Be Back in 50 years Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara According to author Sam Harris, whom I just saw speak on C-SPAN2, 22% of Americans believe that Christ will definately be back within 50 years, and another 22% believe he will probably be back in the next fifty years.

It is high likely that Christ will be back in the next 50 years. I believe Christ will return in the next 20 years.

	07-02-2005 20:11									#119
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo Fundamentalists... are very... hateful people... jon do you really think so?

Funnily enough, the person who strikes me as the most hateful in this thread is a self-described atheist existentialist.

	07-02-2005 20:37									#120
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Plenty of reasons to want things to be good after we die. People don't just care about themselves. This is what creates good policy. Only caring about yourself or thinking that the world will end anyway is what creates bad policy.

You're most obviously new to this planet!
Most people only care about themselves. Of course, when they have to fill out a poll, they suddenly tell they're full of ideals. But in the end no-one wants to share more then a little bit of their wealth.

The % of christians in Holland is very low, it's a minority. BUT of all the money the dutch people give to the environment, 3rd world countries, poor people, etc. 66% comes from the christians.

Maarten Luther, the first reformer, said: "If I knew Christ was coming today, I would plant an appletree today." in other words, the christian doctrine is: Expect Christ to come today, life like Christ could wait another 2000 years.