10-02-2005 04:25									#31
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Send one south, the other either west or east. Probably west towards the lake.

Workers - have we agreed to leave them all there, road with 2 and irrigate with one?

	10-02-2005 04:25									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Aqualung71 Now referring to Moonbars' diagram: City B one tileSW (as per my post above)

223, that's what i was saying

quote: City E one tile SW to take advantage of the lake

agreed!

quote: City D is probably ok because it's on the hidden lake, but subject to discovering whether the tile if BGL or just plain GL

by moving B and E we probably don't have much choice but to put D there, even if we waste a BG

quote: City G I quite dislike because it has no river, but I don't have a better alternative at this stage. In any case, it will be the 6th city or later, and we would have done more exploration by then. But it does share the Cow, which is good.

true...

quote: City F may be better placed one tile NE on the river, though doing so would sacrifice the Cow share.

i checked it now. before i was not aware that it was a river tile... but it seems to be, so i agree!

quote: Also, by moving city B as discussed, we can probably squeze another city in on the river between B and C. Perhaps to do this we should move city C 1 tile further east, though this would significantly increase corruption and make it harder to build the Colossus.

agreed. but these are things still far away.

all in all, i can live quite well with these modified proposals. of course keep in mind that uncovering new resources may change our opinion. but given the current knowledge we could go for this stuff.

i have overthought my position of starting NE for the capital. i initially thought it's likely a lake where the river is going into, but then i figured that dominae balanced the map and cannot have put us bang in the middle. so i reckon we are on a fairly round/hexagonal pangea or a pangea consisting of 2 or 3 similarily formed subcontinents and the northeastern river in fact leads into the sea... so basically it is preferable to have the capital further west to minimise the total distance corruption. could my assumptions be right?



to all the other guys: what are your opinions

	10-02-2005 04:35									#33
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going with aqualung's proposal, these would be the moves i'd imagine:

settler1: SW (capitol hill?)
settler2: S (then S and SE) --> 223 (suga suga!)
settler3: E (then E and SE) --> 663 (diamonds are a girl's best friend )

worker1: irrigate
worker2: irrigate
worker3: road
this will complete both improvements in time.
next worker actions:
- the only worker to be moveable in turn 2 goes to the BG in the south and mines and roads. connects city B (suga suga!)
- worker2 irrigates and roads the cattle. more is not needed as he'll complete it on his own in time anyhow!
- worker3 roads BG in the E, connects city C

warriors:
- should my assumptions be agreeable for you, i would recommend starting warrior1 towards "inland" (so west-bound). maybe even starting 111 (WWW)
- warrior 2 could go in the only direction no other unit is going: north or at least NW.

	10-02-2005 04:38									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Aqualung71 Send one south, the other either west or east. Probably west towards the lake. Workers - have we agreed to leave them all there, road with 2 and irrigate with one?

damn crossposting

ok, should you choose west (makes more sence if my assumption is correct) for one of the settlers then of course the future worker movements change too and one of the warriors should probably head southish instead?!?

	10-02-2005 05:39									#35
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quote: Originally posted by sabrewolf worker1: irrigate worker2: irrigate worker3: road this will complete both improvements in time. next worker actions: - the only worker to be moveable in turn 2 goes to the BG in the south and mines and roads. connects city B (suga suga!)

Not sure I agree. Turn 1 Worker roads, and won't be finished until the end of turn 2, as will the irrigtion with 2 workers. So, no movement until turn 3, when all 3 should be available to move.

I think I agree with Sabre's improvement order though.

quote: - worker2 irrigates and roads the cattle. more is not needed as he'll complete it on his own in time anyhow! - worker3 roads BG in the E, connects city C

This looks good.

quote: warriors: - should my assumptions be agreeable for you, i would recommend starting warrior1 towards "inland" (so west-bound). maybe even starting 111 (WWW) - warrior 2 could go in the only direction no other unit is going: north or at least NW.

Looks ok.

	10-02-2005 08:29									#36
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Dang, lot of catching up on this one, and looks like I missed the fun part . I'm not sure if it got settled or not, but on a map this crowded, I'm leery of trying to snag the gems with a second ring of culture. Of course, if there are mountains to the northeast of them, we can put that city off until our first built settler. With ivory in hand, we shouldn't need a second luxury before we can get a settler out.

	10-02-2005 12:01									#37
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We might want to be careful with those warriors. How many tiles are we from another player?

Could one of their warriors pop up on our border, near a city we can't get a warrior to in time?

	10-02-2005 16:27									#38
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I suggest we build a couple or three Warriors early, so we can explore for the other civs.

Which leads us to discuss build queues......

	10-02-2005 16:47									#39
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Agreed. In a cutthroat game like this we need an early military presence.

	10-02-2005 20:38									#40
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Ok, turn played. I decided to send Settler 3 out west towards the lake, with the Gems/Delta town to be founded with Settler 4. This way we can see what is out west, with the coast at our back. One Warrior was sent east to explore that area while the other has gone north.

Workers - 2 built a road, 3rd started on irrigation. The first 2 will complete the irrigation next turn, so our first turn with a town will have an irrigated roaded Ivory on a river - nice start

I think this is consistent with the consensus we established today

Our password is drow33

Here is the screenie.

Attachment: evedestruction 4000bc.jpg
This has been downloaded 17 time(s).

	10-02-2005 22:11									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Aqualung71 Not sure I agree. Turn 1 Worker roads, and won't be finished until the end of turn 2, as will the irrigtion with 2 workers. So, no movement until turn 3, when all 3 should be available to move.

nooooo

in PBEM worker actions complete a turn earlier, BEFORE the next turn starts. so 1 roader would have been enough to have it completed by 3950bc

in our case it does not yet matter because the city has not been built, but this PBEM "feature" should urgently be considered to be exploited for further micromanaging


the turns however are fine. pity we're not sending anything west

	10-02-2005 22:15									#42
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build queues:
i could imagine something like this (but not put much thought to it yet):

- capital starts warrior, then granary (or prebuild until pottery available). using forest-chops for speeding things up...
- lake city: 1-3 warriors, then settler/granary
- sugar city: maybe barracks? it's got quite a decent production with 2 sugars (mined) and >=1BG

	11-02-2005 09:42									#43
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Sabre, this is a little confusing......but I don't agree.

Scenario 1:

Worker 1 begins by roading in 4000BC (2 turn job).
When we get the turn for 3950BC he is still roading. When we press enter, his roading is completed, and when we get the turn back for 3900BC he is aavailable for another job or to move.

Workers 2 and 3 begin irrigating in 4000BC (3 turn job for one worker). When we get the turn for 3950BC they are still irrigating. When we press enter for 3950BC the irrigation is completed. When we get the save for 3900BC....and this is what I'm not sure about.....theoretically one of the workers is free to move, while the other has already used up his movement point in completing the irrigation.


Scenario 2 (implemented):

Workers 1 and 2 begin roading in 4000BC, and complete it the same turn. When we receive the 3950BC save, they are both available to irrigate.

Worker 3 begins irrigating in 4000BC. When we receive the turn in 3950BC he has 2 turns to go. Workers 2 and 3 then begin irrigating and complete the job by the end of the turn. Then when we press enter, all 3 Workers are refreshed and when we receive the turn in 3900BC all 3 are available for new jobs or to move.


Now I'm not sure how accurate this is.....somebody please review it. Anyway, we will know next turn about Scenario 2.


Sabre, I did send one of the Settlers west....he is on the same hil tile as the first Settler. I was planning to send him over towards the fish.

	11-02-2005 09:45									#44
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Build queues - I'd build a Warrior first in each city. Then a Granary in the capital assisted by forest chops, then Worker...Settler.

Second and third cities....after the Worker, at least one Barracks and possibly another Granary.

	13-02-2005 12:13									#45
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Turn's up. I'll play it tonight based on our discussion to date, unless anyone has any other suggestions.

	13-02-2005 17:23									#46
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no problems here.

	13-02-2005 21:26									#47
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Very interesting start. Not a particularly food-filled one, but it will be great for shields in the short-term and insane in the long-run. This is definitely the kind of start which will benefit from a few well-used Granaries and a lot of Workers.

	14-02-2005 05:29									#48
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Agreed. We should be able to hoot along nicely after our first Granary is built.

I've posted the screenie in the screenshot thread but will repeat it here for discussion.

Thoughts - northern Warrior to keep going, or divert to the goody hut? I'm not inclined to go for huts at Emperor level, but I don't really mind.

The western Settler I suggest sending him 11 to settle next to the lake on the GL.

Southern Settler as initially planned, to move 3 then settle. Let's hope no barbs appear out of the fog

The 1 available Worker was moved south to start roading and then mining the BGL on the river.

Roading/irrigating the Ivory was a great start - 2/1/3!

Attachment: evedestruction 3950bc.jpg
This has been downloaded 10 time(s).

	14-02-2005 05:54									#49
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On Monarch and above I pop all huts by building a city next to them - assures there will be no barbs.

	14-02-2005 05:58									#50
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Looks like most of the others have moved their capital as well.

The worst that hut can be is barbarians.. and if so our warrior would be on a mountain.

I think I agree with the 1 1 move on the west settler, let us keep our fingers crossed for our brave and undefended sugar city settlers!

	14-02-2005 08:23									#51
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Trip On Monarch and above I pop all huts by building a city next to them - assures there will be no barbs.

That's what I do for emperor and above (Monarch level is still pretty kind), though if the hut is too far away, chances are you won't get a town there before someone else pops it.

	14-02-2005 08:25									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Moonbars I think I agree with the 1 1 move on the west settler, let us keep our fingers crossed for our brave and undefended sugar city settlers!

Same for the Fish Settler.

So, do we risk it, or send Warriors out for protection before venturing into a tile next to fog?

	14-02-2005 08:33									#53
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Next turn I propose sending one Worker north to the Cow to road and irrigate, and the other west to the BGL to road, and then either to mine or send him SW (1) to road towards the Fish town.

Comments?

	14-02-2005 11:27									#54
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I think the risk of barbarians is very low..

I say send both workers west to the BGL, to road it. they can then move on as a team and road either the GL on the way to the cattle, or road towards fishtown.

	14-02-2005 11:55									#55
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That wastes Worker turns. I say the 2 Workers should each road a different tile. Remember, we won't need the next tile fully improved for another 10 turns, and the border expansion for the Cow will also take 10 turns.

	14-02-2005 13:25									#56
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not sure I follow your thinking there, how does that waste worker turns?

	15-02-2005 02:13									#57
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i agree with aqua on the cow issue. 1 worker will suffice to have it ready in time.

	15-02-2005 02:19									#58
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Still don't see how it would waste a worker turn

	15-02-2005 02:57									#59
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, you're right on the wrong expression

but instead the worker can be used for a tile that is useable in the first turn (such as a BG that C or D can access...)

	15-02-2005 02:59									#60
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so u are saying that we do *not* lose worker turns, but rather that we can work two tiles and get them finished in time for the cities to use them the turn they complete?