15-02-2005 03:30									#61
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Scenario 1:

Turn 1: Worker 1 moves to BGL, Worker 2 moves to Cow

Turn 2: Each worker begins roading

Turn 3: Each worker completes roading

Result: 2 tiles roaded in 3 turns.


Scenario 2:

Turn 1: Workers 1 and 2 move to BGL

Turn 2: Each worker begins roading, and roading is completed.

Turn 3: Workers 1 and 2 move to Cow

Turn 4: Each worker begins roading, and roading is completed.

Result: 2 tiles roaded in 4 turns.



Comparison: Same result, scenario 2 takes 1 turn longer.

	15-02-2005 03:48									#62
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i really cannot understand why you keep insisting that 2 workers need to move onto a tile for a road. in PBEM with an industrial civ the road is completed after just ONE turn, then the worker rests one turn.

there is absolutely no need to move 2 industrial workers onto a tile to road it unless you need it immediately for troop movement.

i can prove it to you with our worker SE of the capital: start the road THIS turn and see how in 3850bc it will be completed ==> 1 single turn!

the most cost-effective in the long run is to pan out workers onto different tiles to minimise the movement losses.

imho the 2 workers on the ivory should spread apart. one for the cattle, 1 to one of the two BGs (east or west of the ivory)

	15-02-2005 03:57									#63
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But that's what I was trying to demonstrate Sabre. Moonbars felt it would be just as efficient moving 2 Workers to a tile, then moving them both to the next tile.

By the way, your description of how it works in PBEM doesn't change my analysis. Whether the single worker finishes the road at the end of turn 2 or during turn 3, he still won't be able to move until turn 4.

	15-02-2005 04:04									#64
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In scenario One, however, the first road is finished before it would be under scenario 2, meaning it gives a benefit faster.

Also under scenario two, the workers are stuffed if a barb comes along, they would either die or cancel their work

I do not like the idea of our workers being "stuck" for 2 turns after that finish a road, as in scenario two! Scenario One is more flexible and gives a benefit faster.

We should use scenario two only when the workers are 3 turns away from harm and we do need the tiles they are working the same turn. We should use Scenario One in all other cases.

	15-02-2005 04:10									#65
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So you now agree that Scenario 2 wastes Worker turns?

Remember that though the road is finished faster under Scenario 1, we still have 9 turns to grow before we have another citizen to actually work the tile, therefore there is no benefit at all to finishing it earlier.

	15-02-2005 04:26									#66
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Yes, granted. I still feel it would be better to move them as a team for the reasons outlined above, however.

	15-02-2005 04:42									#67
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But that contradicts what you said in your previous post

	15-02-2005 11:31									#68
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no it doesn't!

	15-02-2005 12:49									#69
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quote: Originally posted by Moonbars I do not like the idea of our workers being "stuck" for 2 turns after that finish a road, as in scenario two! Scenario One is more flexible and gives a benefit faster. We should use scenario two only when the workers are 3 turns away from harm and we do need the tiles they are working the same turn. We should use Scenario One in all other cases.

quote: Yes, granted. I still feel it would be better to move them as a team for the reasons outlined above, however

Yes it does!

	15-02-2005 16:42									#70
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no it doesn't!

	15-02-2005 22:14									#71
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There's only one way to settle this: a drinking contest.

	16-02-2005 04:21									#72
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Not much to report this turn, except to say that there is nice forest down south and the river continues far enough for us to make some more cities down there.

Attachment: evedestruction 3900bc.jpg
This has been downloaded 17 time(s).

	16-02-2005 05:33									#73
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Ok, I need some comments from you guys for the next few turns. I was a bit late playing this turn and the administrators are starting to throw their weight around and threatening to skip turns for slow play.

I propose founding Sugar town next turn (names?). 3rd Settler to move 1 then found the following turn. Eastern Warrior to start moving south, northern warrior to keep going north (possibly to the coast) then head west. Worker jobs are pretty obvious for now.

Keep an eye on our cash - we are running a deficit because of the unit support with only 1 town, but that will disappear next turn and Pottery should be a lot closer.

Build queue for second town - Warrior?

[edit: by the way, if I take too long and we are threatened, would somebody else please play the turn]

	16-02-2005 08:29									#74
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Go ahead and play it that way, if you haven't already. We can rename the city and change the build queue later, if needed.

	16-02-2005 13:51									#75
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Happy with the suggested moves.

I am not receiving the save, so I would be unable to play should we miss it - how is the save being distributed to you, can my email be added to the previous team's list? (and anybody else who is not getting it - the save that is.)

As things get more complicated, we need to start giving you better orders from the ministeries, in fact - we need to finalise who is doing what

	18-02-2005 07:07									#76
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I've asked Beta to add Moonbastard and Solemnwitch to his record of Desolation Row member emails for save turn distribution

	18-02-2005 07:17									#77
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Once our southern worker finishes roading, I suggest he moves south again to the Sugar tile to road it and connect the second town to the capital. After roading it should be mined, since under despotism we would lose the food bonus of irrigating a Sugar plain.

Agreed?

	18-02-2005 22:19									#78
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Sounds good to me.

	18-02-2005 22:53									#79
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just for your information: i've got a new (more than) fulltime job since beginning of this week and now can really only post and play in the late GMT hours (~ 20-23 GMT). that is, if i have not got another RL issue.

on the sugar plains issue: as i said in one of my first posts in this thread: mine them ... monarchy/republic is still pretty far away and by then we'll have enough workers to irrigate it. the a 2,2,3 tile (mined, roaded, "rivered") is sweeeeeeeeet


now about non-waterbreathers playing the turn: how can we know whether you will be playing a turn or not? and if we have to do it, who decides who plays?

	18-02-2005 23:46									#80
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Turn played. No barbs

Nothing else to report.

Attachment: evedestruction 3850bc.jpg
This has been downloaded 16 time(s).

	18-02-2005 23:49									#81
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Oh yeh, one thing......I'm annoyed that tile 44 of the Settler is a mountain, cos I wanted to put a town there

	21-02-2005 09:07									#82
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Thanks, Aquapunk.

I, like sabrewolf, have had an employment shakeup recently. In the meantime, I'm doing some freelance work that requires long road trips and allows little sleep when it gets busy (like this past weekend, 2000+ miles total). If I disappear for a few days, that's what happened and I will be back, but you all have my pre-emptive apologies.

	21-02-2005 12:28									#83
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Can we have some F11 screens please? (in the screenshot thread maybe)

I am still not getting the saves.

	21-02-2005 12:54									#84
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It's a conspiracy!

I've emailed Beta again. Meanwhile, I've forwarded the save to Moonbars and Solomwi, who weren't on the list. Will play it tonight.

	21-02-2005 19:34									#85
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Ok men, a few things to consider here.

Firstly and most importantly, our northern Warrior has found Team Euphorica to our near north. This has various implications, not the least of which is "when should we exterminate them?"

The town of Lake-fish (PLEASE let's get some name suggestions!) was founded next to the....errr...fish-lake.

All towns are building Warriors.

Lake-fish is working the fish tile at 3/0/2. If I'd worked the unroaded BG, we would have an extra shield, but I value food and commerce over production - differing viewpoints are always welcome, so speak up.

Workers are proceeding as previously planned. Main objective is to connect up our first 3 towns, then work on improvements. An early goal should also be to start and complete a Granary - Pottery is now only 3 turns away.

Here is the surrounding terrain screenie:

Attachment: evedestruction 3800bc.jpg
This has been downloaded 13 time(s).

	21-02-2005 19:40									#86
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You can see from the demographic screenie below that I usually favour early commerce and food over production. Again, viewpoints please.

It's a bit early to be placing too much store in these demo numbers, but as a guide, if I switched the lake tile in Lake-fish to the BG adding a shield, our production would move from 5 (5th) to 6 (2nd), while GNP would slip from 13 (1st) to 11 (2nd), so it's really not such a big deal.

Anyway, my thinking is promote early growth so you can power ahead in these numbers later, particularly with early Granaries. My proposed strategy is also to build relatively early Granaries in all 3 of these towns....probably staggering them so at least one town is building units while the others are building Granaries, Workers or Settlers.

Attachment: evedestruction 3800bc demo.jpg
This has been downloaded 13 time(s).

	21-02-2005 19:43									#87
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And to round out the relevant info, here's what the domestic advisor says. Obviously in Inner Sanctum we're working the irrigated Ivory, and in Sugar Town it's an (as yet) unimproved plains Sugar, that will soon be roaded.

Attachment: evedestruction 3800bc eco.jpg
This has been downloaded 13 time(s).

	21-02-2005 19:45									#88
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By the way, the first screenie shows net cash flow at zero, but I eased the slider 10% afterwards so we make 1gtp (big deal) while still keeping Pottery 3 turns away - refer the domestic advisor screenie

	21-02-2005 19:49									#89
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Anothe thought is to switch Inner Sanctum immediately to a Granary pre-build instead of completing the Warrior, and letting the other 2 towns continue with the
Warriors. This is my preference - comments?

	21-02-2005 22:26									#90
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That's what I was about to suggest - get a pre-build going. How about a forest chop as well?