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Peaster
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Florida
Jul 2003
time: 00:24
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Oops! I just started a different spoiler thread. Well. let's use this one instead.
Pre-game thoughts: Persian pundits don't think the tech-rule will have too much effect, except that it'll be harder to weasel maps out of the other six beligerent tribes. And we should really avoid the evils of feudalism lest our enemies build pikemen.
The huge black map handed down to us from the Holy Mountain may mean a longer game, especially if our warriors must trek across large masses of land. Thus spake the Persian builder associations, who conclude that we must construct a few Wonders - such as MPE, HG and LH, without regard to cost. With these words of wisdom to guide them, our brave Settlers begin to wander about...
4000BC: Hut = 100g. We will quickly spend this for a third settler, before our builders can take a cut, while our second settler explores a bit to the west. The southern grassland has no forests nearby for construction, so the Persians builders persuade us to follow a northern star.
3900: Persepolis (1). We never saw a buffalo on a river before.
3700: Size-1-Settler is born, and Settler 2 builds Pasargadae (2).
3650: Susa (3), will share the water-buffalo.
3600: Alphabet -> CB.
3550: Persian warriors start a little dance, alternating between martial law and little visits into the countryside. Our wise dervishes suggest a few coastal cities soon.
3350: CB -> mm. We chose mapmaking, hoping for seafaring soon after monarchy. We want 2-3 explorers entering huts on a large continent. But - monarchy is taking longer than expected, and we are almost defenseless against barbarians.
[subliminal] This log is SO imaginative! [/subliminal]
Most Persian cities have been trying a strategy imported from France known as "3-arrows". So, we wonder if settling early in the North was really so smart.
2900: mm-> c.laws
2700: Arbela is founded near a musk ox and some silk, but the town's builder association insists on a percentage of the local trade, so Arbelian workers have nothing better to do than work the grass (1-arrow).
2500BC: Next turn, Persia will have 5 cities [with a new one in the wheat fields to the east, hoping to follow the French plan, but their builders association is likely to interfere]. Also, 1 Settler, 5 warriors and Code of Laws. Monarchy in 2050BC seems possible - if the western settler founds a 3-arrow city soon. No AI contact yet, and only one hut popped.
 Attachment: xe_b2500.sav
This has been downloaded 5 time(s).
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Grigor
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Oberlin, Ohio
Jan 2000
time: 00:24
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4000BC Xerxes the Generous takes charge of two samaritans, with a sub rosa agenda of bloodlust. He sadly sees no starting techs. He confers with his Deity, and in a volcanic-fume induced haze, resolves to give any techs he later acquires to each AI immediately. Xerxes' minions peek inside a hut and find an Elephant. What was in that smoke?? With the knowledge that a friendly adversary has polytheism, Speed is of the essence... Persepolis is founded at the site.
3950 researching Alphabet. Builiding one road, for defence and science.
3900* The elephant finds a second hut, revealing Alphabet - what luck! The Deity sems to have accepted Xerxes' rash act of generosity...
3850 Xerxes ponders the tech path briefly. Surprise! - researching Ceremonial Burial.
3800 Pasargadae founded down the river
3750 a Persian Warrior begins his grim career of brief exploration and martial law
3650 Another hut provides 25g
3450 Ceremonial Burial - HB not offered. Research BW.
3300* Persepolis builds settlers
3200 Susa founded down the river
3000 The elephant finds a coast in the far north. A Hut! - Arbela. Ths far-flung colony should be repositioned. Xerxes looks around. His empire is 4 cities, BW soon, a good amount of exploration accomplished. A modest beginning, but a good start at homeland development. Still no friends to donate techs to.
2900* BW=>CoL
2850 Pasargadae builds settlers. The busy elephant razes another hut: 50g
2800 An exploring warrior redeems his existence and finds a whale near the homeland for next local city
2750 The marauding elephant finds yet another northern hut: Antioch. Its location is nearly as bad as Arbela. Xerxes resolves: This will be the nucleus of a Great Northern trade center.
2650 Tarsus (a possible SSC) founded near the whale.
2600 Persepolis: Settlers.
2500* The inquisitive pachyderm wastes yet another hut, finding a friend of sorts - Nomads. The northern commercial center has a good chance now to actually be useful.
Xerxes retires to seek more council from the vapors which so inspired him before...
 Attachment: xe_b2500.sav.zip
This has been downloaded 9 time(s).
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-Jrabbit
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of the Electronic Egyptians
Feb 2002
time: 23:24
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4000bc -- open hut, get elephant -- finds river!
3900 -- Elly finds hut = 100 GP
3700 -- Hut = Archer
3600 -- Persepolis founded at 185, 83 (whale, wine, river/buffalo)
3550 -- Cere Bury selected
3500 -- Hut = archers, attached. Elly goes NW
3450 -- Pasagardae founded amid silk-wheat-fish
3350 -- Ceremonial Burial discovered, Alphabet selected
3300 -- Hut = barb horse; elly makes vet!
3150 -- another hut! = Legion (attached to pasagardae)
3050 -- Hut = Warrior Code
2900 -- Settler completed in Persepolis
2850 -- Settler completed in Pasagardae
2700 -- Alphabet completed, Code of Law selected
2650 -- Hut = 25 GP
2550 -- Susa founded on silk
2500 -- SAVE GAME -- Elly ready to take hut, settler ready to build on Gems @ 173, 67
Summary: Good hut luck, bad science progress. about to drop 4th city. Briefly looking at others, this is not as good as I thought it might be...
Attachment: xe_2500bc.sav
This has been downloaded 1 time(s).
Last edited by -Jrabbit on 18-02-2005 at 18:45
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Peaster
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Florida
Jul 2003
time: 00:24
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Atomant - We need a deadline for posting 2500BC saves, so we know how long to wait for Scouses Gits, 6000 etc.
Atomant and JRabbit - your early wandering was a gamble that did not pay off this time [but I haven't checked JR's save yet].
In Grigor's save and mine, growth has surpassed science, which means getting monarchy and HG ASAP is crucial. We are equal on advances/beakers. We both have a chance for monarchy in 9 turns if there are no riots, barbs, etc. My cities seem slightly better prepared for these problems. The main tech difference is Grigor's BW [for defense, and the trade path] vs Maps [for triremes and the seafaring+hut strategy].
Also - With the special tech rule in this game, I expect we will have only one chance with each AI to raise attitude through tech gifts, trying to get their maps. So, we may want mapmaking when we make first contact.
Grigor is about 1/2 a city ahead in terms of growth, since his Arbela will disband, and his Persepolis has no good shield squares. His northern city Antioch should be useful later as a port. I don't think we need an SSC [this game is for conquest, right?] but that city is on a good square anyway.
If we have to choose between these two saves, one big issue will be building Hanging Gardens, probably with vans, before we make 12 cities. My plan is mapmaking/seafaring, using triremes + explorers + virgin huts + AI contact to get bw/cu/trade/pots quickly. This should pay off on a big continent. From Grigor's save, the plan would probably be cu/trade/pots directly... a shorter path, but probably with less help from AI/huts. I'm not sure which is better.
We both seem to be ignoring the "raging hordes" setting, with several empty cities. My save is temporarily a little safer - less spread out, with more warriors. But Grigor can make phalanges if he wants. I think barbs are somehow anemic until you make 7-8 cities, but I don't know this rule exactly.
So... we wait for more saves... and more opinions.
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-Jrabbit
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of the Electronic Egyptians
Feb 2002
time: 23:24
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Atomant, please clarify -- Does it matter in what manner we transfer techs to the AI civs?
In other words, can we trade, or must it be gifting? [EDIT: I checked, and it can be either.]
Peaster -- yeah, all my recent MP play has really put me into the mode of finding a great spot for the capital, so it's not surprising that I would be surpassed in early game snapshots. I think, in the long run, we would do quite well with my start, but judging strictly on BC2500 results, I must defer to either your start or Grigor's.
At first, I was sold on Grigor's , but if you consider the number of still-available huts, the Peaster .SAV may actually be superior.
...and where's that Scouser???
Last edited by -Jrabbit on 18-02-2005 at 21:37
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Grigor
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Oberlin, Ohio
Jan 2000
time: 00:24
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My start was aided by 2 AT (in unfortunate locations) and a 2-move elephant for exploration. I like that there is a promising start to a northern city group, which could turn out triremes and conquerors in profusion by about 1500BC, and perhaps even a wonder. In short, I have more territory, but a looser position.
Peaster made incredible use of his 100g first hut, and his cities are better placed in the homeland, which will make production easier. His compact city placement minimizes corruption and will make his science slightly quicker for the next 20 turns. He is absolutely right about my capital being devoid of shields, but he will eventually put a city in that location too, right?
I think my homeland position can be consolidated soon (in about 10 turns), and then it will not be inferior to Peaster's. The crucial issue in my save will be to maximize arrows to be sure Monarchy comes in 2050. The northern cities will not help science much, but they can build units and more settlers. Once other civs are found I predict they will be closer to the northern group than the home group. We don't yet know what use Peaster's eastern coastal city will be - if the nearest island is too far away we may be stuck in the south with no quick expansion possibilities. And I think fast Trade will be more useful than trireme exploration on a giga map. But I could be wrong in that.
So I prefer my loose save this turn, but not strongly.
We should definitely wait for the Scouser. He played the most enterprising opening imaginable the last game.
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Peaster
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Florida
Jul 2003
time: 00:24
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2nd Attempt to Post a Log (...Grrrr)
2500 Switch Antioch to phalanx, max-out arrows, give-up on Arbela.
2400 C-Laws. Gordium (7) on a bufflao.
2300 Bactra (8)
2250 1st of 3 riots [allowed carelessly]. Arbela disbands (7).
2100 Sidon and Tyre (9).
2050 Monarchy discovered and adopted.
1700 Currency
1600 Hut: barb kills a warrior.
1550 Sardis (10)
1500 Power report. We are 3rd.
1450 Samaria (11) to the east.
1400 Hamadan (12). Trade. Have been prepping to make vans for HG, but can't research pottery. So, I aim for mapmaking and MPE soon afterwards. I hope to get pottery, tribute and maps from the AI soon.
1100 Mapm'g -> pots. "Russians beat Japs, and start on the Colossus".
1000 MPE allows us to give all our tech away. We get 6 maps, poly and myst. We also reluctantly took math + wheel from Russia [to get poly + math from the more advanced and icy Greeks]. NONE of the AI had pots!!! They say good-bye after map trades, so we must talk again in 975BC about tribute (unlikely) and more tech-gifts.
Good = city production, at triremes, a vet ellie, and vans for HG or LH. Enough settlers for colonization. Decent roads. One nearby hut. Six AI maps.
Bad = several of my plans failed, especially pottery. Without luck at huts, etc, it may take 12 more turns for pottery/HG, to allow further growth.
We could build LH first and might even skip HG for Mike's depending on hut outcomes, etc.
Attachment: pster_b1000.sav
This has been downloaded 3 time(s).
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-Jrabbit
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of the Electronic Egyptians
Feb 2002
time: 23:24
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Hmm, I look at these logs and must admit to a bit of WTF. Seems like we need to agree upon a strategy before this goes too much further. This is tech-neutral bloodlust, with restarts. So let me ramble with some commentary at this point...
Obviously, with no real differentiation in the tech race, the greatest advantages in this game will lie in getting the right WoWs.
Maybe I'm being a bit dense, but I don't understand the rush to MPE. The longer we wait to build it, the more the map area to be revealed. After we've gifted everyone, additional map requests will be difficult to get.
Another possibility would be to blow off MPE entirely. This would limit required gifting to the civs we have met. On a gigamap, you can build a pretty big civ before meeting more than one or two others. (And the world is so big, it does make sense to get map trades, thus maybe MPE is OK.) Consider: It might do us more good to get our embassies with the late-game WoW after MPE expires.
I'm suggesting that an isolationist policy, celebration growth, and a rush to soft fundy might be a better course of action.
But even if we decide we want MPE, why not build camels-in-waiting for it and get another early WOW like HG or LH first?
If we are going to go forward with MPE, I then must wonder about the value of a SSC, since there's no possibility of taking a tech lead... In fact, it might make sense to set the science slider to zero after we get a few key early WoWs.
Speaking of which, notes on another couple WoWs --
--Upgrades through Invention/Leo's is a potentially huge advantage in this game.
--Conversely, the Library will be worthless, since everyone will have all techs anyway (assuming MPE).
--STWA is a must. If we're all going to have the same units, best that ours be vets, eh? (Timing will be critical on this.)
Let's see some commentary on these random thoughts so my session will be informed by our agreed-upon goals...
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17-02-2005 13:08
I could replay 20 times and not match that result.
)
)
So I'll catch up (maybe) soon. 
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