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skrobism
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SOunds good to me.
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skrobism
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I thought I exprssed my concern and disatisfaction here when I first responded to the new demands.
We will see soon enough if they attack or not.
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E_T
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Orlando, Florida
Mar 2001
time: 00:34
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Some chatting With Krill
quote:
[19:49] [E_T> did you get the message that Beta had sent you?
[19:49] [Krill> yes
[19:49] [E_T> any problems with it?
[19:49] [Krill> and me and Ormuzd have on had a cursory discussion of the matter.
[19:50] [E_T> did he send the thing back (he stated he did)
[19:50] [Krill> unaccepted, he said.
[19:50] [E_T> had to change lux or would delay some settler builds
[19:50] [E_T> unaccepted??
[19:51] [Krill> the thing = peace, right?
[19:51] [Krill> the peace treaty/RoP, to be exact
[19:51] [E_T> he stated in turnthread he sent it accepted, but he had diner and wine, too before playing
[19:51] [E_T> yeah
[19:52] [E_T> I was about to play it, when he had sent e-mail stateng that he had, according to myu quickly sent instructions (at 4AM, mind you)
[19:52] [Krill> I have not openned the save yet, so I do not know for certain.
[19:53] [E_T> K, well, with things getting changed every turn, it's hard to figure things out
[19:53] [Krill> uh, are any of the others here part of the C3CDG?
[19:53] [E_T> no
[19:53] [Krill> good.
[19:53] [E_T> but you can check
[19:53] [Krill> Fancy telling them what all this is about for the hell of it?
[19:54] [Krill> 
[19:54] [Krill> I'm not trip
[19:54] [E_T> Ah, but we don't want to tell all...
[19:54] [E_T> brb, bathroom break
[19:56] [Krill> np
[19:56] [E_T> anyways, sounds like your timetable has been moved up
[19:56] [E_T> do you have any word on any BoH units nearby?
[19:57] [Krill> As I have not openned the save yet, I can't really tell...
[19:58] [E_T> any last turn?
[19:58] [Krill> nope
[19:58] [E_T> and your scouting is sufficiant to give us good enough warning?
[19:59] [Krill> Unless they come via LB lands, yes
[19:59] [E_T> not likely, unless they take something there first
[19:59] [Krill> about 5 turns notice, IIRC
[20:00] [E_T> yeah, thought that they were blowing smke up our asses
[20:00] [E_T> although, I wonder who their real target iwill be
[20:01] [E_T> as that group is not in the fight against Euph, they have seemed to dissappear
[20:02] [Krill> Maybe it was recalled for upgrade?
[20:02] [E_T> otherwise, Euph would already be dead
[20:02] [E_T> need Chiv for that and as far as I know, DR is researching it
[20:03] [E_T> are you working on anything?
[20:03] [Krill> yeah, rep
[20:03] [E_T> why, after changing to Feud?
[20:03] [Krill> well, we are in a GA right now
[20:04] [Krill> GA in despotism, GA in fued, I think you get the picture
[20:04] [E_T> and wantto go to Rep after theGA is over with
[20:04] [Krill> yeah
[20:04] [Krill> Playing as Eygpt has its' advantages 
[20:04] [E_T> how much longer on your GA
[20:04] [Krill> Come on, you know the answer. It started when we attacked Ashur
[20:05] [Krill> about 17 turns, IIRC
[20:05] [E_T> I can't remember that, too much goig on with more than one game, plus RL
[20:05] [E_T> it all flows togethere, sometimes
[20:06] [E_T> especially withthe delays (sorry again about tem)
[20:06] [E_T> *them
General School BS afterrwards
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Summery:
-They are researchin Republic
-They had some disscussion about not getting peace and RoP, but Krill hasn't li\ooked at save yet
-They have enough scout/lookout coverage to give abouta 5 turn notice of any BoH troop movements and they haven't seen any yet.
-BoH might be getting ready for a Mass upgrade, if not getting ready to attack someone else.
-AM has about 17 turns of GA left
-Acted surprised at news that it was sent unaccpeted, but he might smell a rat.
This helps to lay the confusion part of the Plan. With us cutting Horses, it just might be a mistake on Beta's part that he didn't accept it.
Now, Skro or Beta, it's up to you. Need to talk to either Krill and/or Ormuzd, very soon (1889 posted save sent at around 2PM EDT), before they play it.
We want them to make their demands, we want to present indifferenance, to the point of outright discust with things. We want to finally say, "You know, to hell with this, you had beter take as many cities that you can, before there is nothing left for you to take. We are finished with this crap and want to ge on with other things and let it rest. So, take us out, we don't care and we think that your treaty is just a way to take us out, but to prolong that agony. Do it quick and be done with it. We don't care any more".
Or something like that.
But first, before you do, see if you can get any more intel from them, about BoH movments, about what they think BoH is up to. Get as much as you can, before we get them to attack us.
But do it soon.
E_T
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skrobism
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chatting with krill now.
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skrobism
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What a waste of time. He never responds. What's up with that? I know it's almost 2am but then just say it's too late to play.
I removed out of game chat and network issues.
quote:
Skrobism says:
Greetings Krill of Morpork
Krill says:
Hi mate
… Out of game chat…
Skrobism says:
so. back to EoD.
Skrobism says:
Greetings Krill,
Skrobism says:
I was very disappointed in the change of plans.
Skrobism says:
Then we considered giving the city as asked but Beta had a last minute change of plans.
Skrobism says:
Babylon does not want to be treated like this for now on.
Skrobism says:
We are partners. Ture that you are the stronger of the partners but there is nop reason to act like this.
Skrobism says:
You have nothing to say to this?
Krill says:
yes, there is a reason. Neither me nor Ormuzd can risk a backstab right now. Settlers cost 30 shields, so do horses. Or if you poped a habour, and got a trade route with LB, you could buy both iron and or horses.
Krill says:
I am not stupid.
Skrobism says:
Niether are we! I thought we had an agreement to re-col the cities as settlers are built. If we turn over our cities now, what do we have left?
Skrobism says:
I told you that we'd put in a good word for you with LB. You never contacted them.
Krill says:
Honestly, I have not had time to talk to Ormuzd about that, so that matter was out of my hands.
Skrobism says:
Well I see no reason for you to cripple us, your new partner, and accuse us of a backstab.
Krill says:
I have not accused you of a backstab, I have simply said that it would be possible for you to backstab us.
…network issues…
Skrobism says:
Last I read was "I have not accused you of a backstab, I have simply said that it would be possible for you to backstab us.
"
Skrobism says:
cordless phone and wireless net don't always play well.
Krill says:
that is all i said
Skrobism says:
Well of course all things are possible. But how do you start a new partnership while constantly changing the rules? We don't want that kind of a partner.
Skrobism says:
We were going to have your back in a war with BOH. We were to move for your new capital. We were giving up prime real estate for you and you change rules each turn. We don't have time for this.
Skrobism says:
any comment?
Skrobism says:
maybe you are sleeping it is very late.
Skrobism says:
hello?
Krill says:
Look, right now i can't think of anything good too say.
Skrobism says:
and right now Babylon really doesn't see any good coming from this partnership. The Morporkians are constantly changing their minds. We can live like this.
Skrobism says:
can't live like this
Krill says:
can't?
Skrobism says:
Make a real peace with Babylon. We will be your vassals. That is our lot in this game. But allow us to stay strong and we can watch your back in the upcoming fight with BOH. We can supply the cats as mentioned before. We will watch the coast and share resources, but if you plan to change your mind each turn - we are done - we don't want it.
Skrobism says:
I will look for your response in game. Good night. Happy gaming.
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skrobism
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You are welcome.
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E_T
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Orlando, Florida
Mar 2001
time: 00:34
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Does AM truely want Peace? Or are they just not exiting their Diplo screen??
Please send to AM:
quote:
Leaders of AM.
Last turn, you sent us Peace, unaccepted, after 1 turn of noting.
Are you truely wanting Peace with Babylon?
In the Past, We offered a Partnership of Equils, that would have benifitted both of us, with rapid research, to help outweigh the BoH threat. We are now in a war of attrition, while BoH gains stregnth. This benifits neither of us.
As you might have surmized, Babylon has rejected the Vassization deal. Although, we feel that AM is currently untrustworthy, we offer you a chance to start redeming yourselves, in our eyes.
We don't offer Satus Quo Antie, but we do want to stop this senseless fight, before the BoH tide takes both of us. Join us in this, or not. Your choice.
Babylon will accept Peace with AM under the following conditions:
1) Withdraw your Army, back across the former AM/Babylon Border. It will then move furter away from Babylon.
2) All Military units in PoA will move 8-8-8 (and head north from there, afterwards)
3) All Buildings in PoA and Former Felinicity will remain intact (i.e. no selling off of Improvements
4) the 2 former Babylon workers, at PoA 8-8 will remain inplace to get recaptured.
5) Babylon will recapture PoA and Former Felinicity
6) All other Former Babylon workers will be put ito positions to be recaptured. If they are too far away for that to happen, they will be moved to a position to get recaptured.
7) As AM used our former partnership plan to gain Feudalism, from us, right before the attack, then AM will give to us, as part of the peace deal, any and all other technologies that they have, at the time of the peace deal. Also, this war triggered your GA, you will give us your next technology, that is currently under research, once completed.
8) AM will abide to the former Border agreement, that was ratified, just before the war.
Babylon could ask for more reparations, but we are not going to, as we don't want to make the demands so rediculous as to be laughable and not seriously taken. We feel that this should be sufficient, in terms, to be acceptable, to both teams.
The greater threat is BoH and needs to be met with a United front, or not at all. We are willing to forgo any other demands. Although, this will make a very great effort in repairing our relationship and can be a starting point for future cooperation.
We await your reply
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Please discuss this as soon as possible. Also, could someone clean this up and make it a bit better worded?
We need to get this to them, if we are going to send it, as we want them to have it, before they play tis next turn.
E_T
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skrobism
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I will clean up & send this afternoon or tonight.
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skrobism
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They can laugh all they want. Our General E_T is confident and that is good enough for me.
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E_T
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Orlando, Florida
Mar 2001
time: 00:34
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This is now a war of attrition. If AM wants to take it to it's conclusion, which is to weaken the both of us, while BoH gets stronger, let them. I'm willing to take it to the conclusion.
But they need to realize that very fact. That they are not only dooming us, but themselves, if they do continue.
And who knows, they might make a stoopid mistake and leave us an opening.
They have their Victorious Army.
But they won't be able to Quickly Reinforce, as they have no roads. Their Plans for Their Palace move is now dust, or hopefully, has a major kink in it. They will need to make themselves even more vulnerable to a BoH attack, if they continue with this, as it stands.
So, this is something that they just might accept. If they laugh at it, then fine.
And we can turn this around, very possibly, with BoH.
Who knows.
E_T
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skrobism
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Very good.
*Crowds of Babylonians rise to their feet and begin to chant...
E! T! E! T! E! T! E! T! E! T! E! T! E! T! E! T! E! T! E! T! E! T! E! T! E! T! E! T! E! T! E! T! E! T! E! T! E! T! E! T! E! T! E! T! E! T! E! T! E! T! E! T! E! T! E! T! E! T! E! T! E! T! E! T! E! T! E! T! E! T! E! T! E! T! E! T! E! T! E! T! E! T! E! T! E! T! E! T! E! T! E! T! E! T! E! T! E! T! E! T! E! T! E! T! E! T! E! T! E! T! E! T! E! T! E! T!
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skrobism
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All AM units to leave Babylon. Got it.
What is "Satus Quo Antie"?
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skrobism
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It was the "Antie" that through me.
Will send soon.
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skrobism
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I am going to tone down the parts that are anti-BOH. Maybe change it to "others" and "growing threats". If BOH is still willing to talk to me I don't want AM handing this over to them and making it look like Babylon is firing up war against BOH.
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skrobism
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The following is being sent now via email to Krill and Ormuzd.
quote:
Leaders of Anhk-Morpork,
My general sends word to your nation. I will not delay you with formalities. It reads...
-----------------
Leaders of AM.
Last turn, you sent us Peace, unaccepted, after 1 turn of nothing.
Do you truly want Peace with Babylon?
In the Past, we offered a Partnership of Equals, which would have benefited both of us, with rapid research, to help outweigh the growing threats. We are now in a war of attrition, while others gain strength. This benefits neither of us.
As you might have surmised, the Vassalization deal is dead. Although, we feel that AM is currently untrustworthy, we offer you a chance to start redeeming yourselves, in our eyes.
We don't offer nor ask for status quo ante bellum, but we do want to stop this senseless fight, before the tide of war takes both of us out. Join us in this, or not - it is your choice.
Babylon will accept Peace with AM under the following conditions:
1) Withdraw your Army from the former Felinicity and former Babylonian territories, back across the former AM/Babylon Border. It will then move further away from Babylon.
2) All Military units in PoA will move 8-8-8 (and head north from there, afterwards)
3) All Buildings in PoA and Former Felinicity will remain intact (i.e. no selling off of Improvements
4) The 2 former Babylon workers, at PoA 8-8 will remain in place to get recaptured.
5) Babylon will recapture PoA and Former Felinicity
6) All other Former Babylon workers will be put into positions to be recaptured. If they are too far away for that to happen, they will be moved to a position to get recaptured.
7) As AM used our former partnership plan to gain Feudalism, from us, right before the attack, then AM will give to us, as part of the peace deal, any and all other technologies that they have, at the time of the peace deal. Also, this war triggered your GA, you will give us your next technology, that is currently under research, once completed.
8) AM will abide to the former Border agreement, that was ratified, just before the war.
9) AM units will not pillage during the withdrawal from Babylonian territory
Babylon could ask for more reparations, but we are not going to, as we don't want to make the demands so ridiculous as to be laughable and not seriously taken. We feel that this should be sufficient, in terms, to be acceptable, to both teams.
There is a greater threat out there and needs to be met with a united front, or not at all. We are willing to forgo any other demands. This will make a very great effort in repairing our relationship and can be a starting point for future cooperation.
Send Peace accepted this next turn and Babylon will consider this document signed.
We await your reply,
E_T
Grand General of Inanna's Guard
Babylonian Minister of the Interior
-----------------------
We will look for your reply by messenger (email) or simply with a signed treaty (peace sent accepted).
Do not tarry,
-Skrobism
Vox Inannum
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E_T
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Orlando, Florida
Mar 2001
time: 00:34
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Chatted with Krill, about the Peace offer. At this point, they haven't received the save, so they don't know anything else than what is reported in Battle Log.
quote:
[E_T> Oh,, while I'm setting that up, did you get the message from us??
[E_T> i.e. Team Babylon
[Krill_AFK> Yes.
[E_T> and what will be your responce?
[Krill_AFK> mate, we might have considered it, if it weren't for the tech demand, and the demand of the original border.
[E_T> well, lets get down to brass tacks here and discuss it
[E_T> the original border was because of the "modified one" presented in you vassilation deal, which provided us more to the west
[E_T> whereas, the other was more in line with your demands along that area
[E_T> so, atleast until something else can be worked out, it is all I have to work with
[Krill_AFK> OK
[E_T> and the techs, we might back off of the one currently being researched, but the other (IIRC, Mono) is something that we feel that would compensate sufficiently, in respect to what had happened
[Krill_AFK> OK
[Krill_AFK> Now
[Krill_AFK> forget about the incense city, Felinicity, and The Lake Ishtar site. Those are ours.
[E_T> I think that we can do without the Incense city and Lake Ishtar was destroyed, when you took it, but Felinicity is definately something that we want back
[Krill_AFK> come and get it then
[E_T> thing is, do you want to contintiue down this road, where this turns into a war of Attrition? Where we both get weaker, over this timeframe
[E_T> while there is a much greater threat to both of us, more so you than us, at this time
[Krill_AFK> Look, I am paranoid enough to know that we need defenses
[Krill_AFK> and we already have them.
[Krill_AFK> the war continues, for as long as it must
[E_T> and will they be enough?? Think on this, who will be the next target??
[E_T> Especailly with Units being tied up like they are?
[Krill_AFK> I have a damned good idea how is the next target.
[Krill_AFK> who, rather
[E_T> Oh, and that would be who?
[Krill_AFK> :0
[Krill_AFK> Who is the only team that is right next to the BOH stack right now?
[E_T> and you think they are telling you the truth??
[E_T> I don't know, where is it??
[E_T> are you talking about the Stack in Euphorica or the one that is floating around
[Krill_AFK> DR, Immortals, running around in the open, pikes only just reaching the frontlines...
[E_T> and you think that DR isn
[E_T> t protected, too
[Krill_AFK> oh, I fully expect to be attacked.
[Krill_AFK> And I am prepared for that eventuality
[E_T> so, we go down separately, instead of standing together
[E_T> you really think that you can beat their UU??
[E_T> especially if DR is gone before they come for you??
[E_T> and How about an Army of BoH UU's??
[E_T> you really think you have the time??
[E_T> I don't beleave so
[E_T> which is why I have presented this offer to you
[Krill_AFK> your offer was nothing less than an AM surrender
[Krill_AFK> your diplo here though...
[Krill_AFK> look. We would give you mono.
[Krill_AFK> sure fine, that would be acceptable
[Krill_AFK> but no way in hell would we give back Felinicty
[Krill_AFK> and Ishtar would still be ours.
[E_T> whynot?? and it wouldn't be a surrender, you have an Victorious Army, intact, you should beclose to finishing HE, if not finished with it
[E_T> and you have your GA
[E_T> so, why not Felinicity
[E_T> Hey, before this war, we weren't a threat to you, because we beleaved then and still now beleave, even while this war commences that BoH is the main threat
[Krill_AFK> you're saying that the team with the higest pop and had yet to seriously commit to a war was not a threat?
[Krill_AFK> you had mercs to the east, and us to the north
[Krill_AFK> we were not afraid of an early invasion, but when you got fued as the free tech, you had to go.
[E_T> well, Let me atleast present this to my team, they might agree to you keeping Felinicity, but they might want further compensation to outweigh it
[E_T> what can you offer, in that respect?
[Krill_AFK> We keep Felinicity, and the Ishtar site, and all that behind it. We offer Incense for the game.
[Krill_AFK> You get Ashur back, no more poprushing in it, al of improvements that are still in it, we have not sold any IIrC
[Krill_AFK> And you will want to point out that we poprushed in felinicty, so that is half dead anyway, for a while.
[E_T> Oh, we figured that, pop rushed a Barracks
[Krill_AFK> and the iron colony. It worked...
[E_T> which was why we stated that no improvements would be sold, compensation for the pop rushing.
[Krill_AFK> we could trade rep.
[E_T> Hmm, I'll see about that, they might want some cash, in lue of the tech
[Krill_AFK> we have mono, and rep to trade, that is about 1300 beakers worth in techs now
[E_T> yeah, and we didn't attack you nor have we made any moves towards LB. our only mistake was getting involved with that stoopid TNA (which was before I had joined), which was a major, major mistake, in several respects
[E_T> that was responding to this: [Krill_AFK> you're saying that the team with the higest pop and had yet to seriously commit to a war was not a threat?
[E_T> [Krill_AFK> you had mercs to the east, and us to the north
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Can we live without Felinicity and also the Old Lake Ishtar site?? I'm willing to let them have points north of there, but not really those 2. That would, for one, not include the Iron, although I didn't say that, nor ask about it, on purpose.
But as for the techs, they don;t want to give us Republic (which they are researching, but might if we let them keep Felinicity.
My Problem, is that Felinicity is close to a natural Border, with the Mountains and Hills. From looking further at the last save, they are close to finishing a road, between Felinicity and their main area. They have only one hill left to road and they can quickly reinforce.
But then, we can possibily use this in relationship with BoH, how I'm not certain.
And Hopefully, my Intel, sent to DR, about BoH intentions, might get DR on our side, enough to pressure AM to take the offer as we presented, atleast without that second tech. The second tech I can live without, especially if it is Republic. But I don't think that we should give up Felinicity?
What do you all think?? Please present your opinions.
E_T
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skrobism
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They can keep that stinking cat city if they rename it TheLitterBox, send us Republic, and the incense for the game. I want the Iron site and the resource of course.
I don't want any more delays. They will send Peace Accepted, and they start the gifting now. I don't trust him. He screwed us twice. I trust BOH more. At least I know where I stand with them, "We Horde! Give now or die!" Much easier than AM's lies and delays.
E_T keep up the chats with Krill. If you come to a deal that sounds good to you - sign it.
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skrobism
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I take it that Krill did not sign the treaty.
battle report.
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26-08-2005 19:48
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