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planet
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Looking at the current save, for all our strength, our forces are scattered and still not close enough to hitting back. We are average strength to Ankh-Morpork.
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skrobism
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Get a peace deal out of A-M. I don't like surrendering our capital and moving to the desert. But what can you do?
Maybe if we get BOH to attack A-M instead of us we don't need to Vassalize.
Where are things with Eu and LB? I know that DR is not responding.
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Kloreep
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of the pillow
Jun 2002
time: 00:34
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Suggest message...
quote:
Hi. Debate over the vassalization plan came out, well, tied... in lieu of a team majority, E_T and I have decided to make an executive decision and go ahead and accept vassalization.
E_T has some thoughts on how to proceed on Babylon's end. Babylon, Inanna's Throne, Kurra and Hookah will all build settlers to resettle with. Afterwards, Inanna's Throne & Babylon can be taken by force, with Hookah and Kurra being gifted as part of the final peace. We want the palace to jump to Potamia; but for this to happen, we'll need to increase it's population. We'll send workers to do it, but that will take a few more turns like the settlers.
We'll lose our Ivory when Babylon is taken, so we request that you help us build a road connecting the Old and New Babylonian civilizations and then trade it with us. This might take some time. If you can delay the taking of Babylon as much as possible, that would help cut down on the lux loss.
We hope you'll be willing to share resources with us in that manner, since we won't have iron or horses in our new locale. We'll get on hooking up another silks source to send you. |
Cut & pasted E_T's stuff in the other thread and redid the conjugations, basically...
I did the end the way it is for now because, About this:
quote:
3) as per their treaty, they will also be giving us extra of their Luxes/resources. Again, the road, as that will give us Iron and Horses back. Also, we will be working on getting another silks set, ready to send to them. |
Have they actually sent us a treaty? I can't find it...
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E_T
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Orlando, Florida
Mar 2001
time: 00:34
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Sorry about this, I thought that this was also sent to Kloreep and others, and that they would post it.
[quote]
C3CDG
quote:
Treaty of Permanent Partnership Between Ankh Morpork and Babylon
Purpose
The purpose of this treaty is to affirm the creation of a permanent partnership between the nations of Ankh Morpork and Babylon, the purpose of which is to ensure the security and prosperity of both nations for all time to come. The member nations shall seek to cooperate with one another in the future to ensure joint success in the competition of the nations through a victory on the part of Ankh Morpork and prosperity for Babylon.
Article I - Non-Aggression
1. Neither nation shall ever attack the other unless it is mutually agreed to by both partners for the purpose of exchanging artillery units.
2. Neither nation shall ever declare war upon the other unless it is mutually agreed to by both partners for the purpose of exchanging artillery units, or for breaking a resource trade.
Article II - Sharing of Luxuries
1. The partner nations shall share all available luxuries with one another unless Clause 2 or 3 is activated.
2. By a joint decision of the two nations, they may decide to forgo one of their nations having a luxury in order to sell it to a foreign power.
3. If only one source of a luxury should exist between the partner nations, the nation of Ankh Morpork shall decide what nation that luxury shall go to.
Article III - Partnership in Technological Research
1. The partner nations shall share all technologies in their possession with the other unless Clause 2 is activated.
2. By a joint decision of the partner nations, they may decide to forgo sharing a given technology with one or the other nation.
3. Cooperative research goals shall be discussed between the partners and if any conflicts exist, they shall be resolved by a decision by the nation of Ankh Morpork.
4. By a joint decision of the partners, the nation of Babylon may sell a technology to a foreign power.
Article IV - Wonders of the World
1. The partners shall inform each other of what wonders of the world they are planning to construct.
2. If any conflict exists in plans by the partners to construct wonders of the world, the nation of Ankh Morpork may make a decision on what wonders it will construct that the nation of Babylon will not.
Article V - Mutual Protection and Military Alliance
1. If any nation should declare war upon either partner, the other partner is obligated to declare war upon the declaring power and come to the defense of its partner.
2. The timing of such a declaration and of the arrival of military aid as in Clause 1 shall be discussed between the partners and ultimately decided by the nation of Ankh Morpork.
3. If the nation of Ankh Morpork decides to declare war upon a foreign power, the nation of Babylon shall do so as well if this is requested by the nation of Ankh Morpork.
4. If the partners jointly agree, the nation of Babylon may unilaterally declare war upon a foreign power that has not invaded its territory.
5. The partners shall cooperate in all military matters during any war by sharing information about troop positions, intelligence about the enemy, and plans.
6. For any territory conquered from a foreign power in war, the nation of Ankh Morpork shall decide to which partner the territory shall eventually be awarded and when it shall.
Article VI - Exchange of Territory
1.The cities of Inannas Throne, Hooka and Kurra shall be gifted to Ankh Morpork
2. Babylon shall keep, as its official possessions, the cities of Potamia and The Gardens of Tammuz, until Ankh Morpork requests that they be gifted to Ankh Morpork. Babylon shall also have the right to settle the southern desert, in addition to the city sites TMR 111111 and TMR 2211. Babylon shall also settle the city sites Potamia 4477, and Potamia 1111. The land behind these border cities may be settled however Babylon wishes to settle it.
3. Neither partner shall ever accept the cultural conversion of a city belonging to the other partner. Should any cultural conversion of a city take place from one partner to the other anyhow, the city in question shall be immediately returned to its original owner.
3. The partners may exchange additional territory by mutual agreement at any point in the future and such agreements may include the exchanging of lands with nations not a party to this partnership at the mutual agreement of both partners.
ARTICLE VII - Additional Agreements
1. By a joint decision of the partners, the nation of Babylon may sign a non-aggression agreement with a foreign power.
2. By a joint decision of the partners, the nation of Babylon may sign a mutual-protection agreement with a foreign power.
3. Future agreements between the partners and with foreign powers may be created and both partners pledge to do their utmost to find mutually beneficial solutions for the partners in all such cases, but ultimately the nation of Ankh Morpork has the right to veto potential agreements by the partnership with foreign powers.
ARTICLE VIII - Ratification
1. Once this treaty has been signed by the representatives of each partner, those representatives are responsible for taking the treaty back to be ratified by the House of Lords in Babylon and the Council of the Storm in Ankh Morpork.
2. Upon ratification by the Babylonian people and the Council of Oligarchy in Ankh Morpork and notification of this ratification in each case is sent to the other nation, this treaty will go into effect and the partners will be bound by its terms.
ARTICLE IX - Ammendments
1. This treaty may be ammended if representatives of the two partners mutually agree to an ammended version of the treaty and such an ammended treaty is then ratified using the guidelines found in Article VIII. |
Blue spots are bab city sites. Non negoitable. The rest behind them, the red ones, are just suggestions.
[/quote
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skrobism
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Good. This will buy us time and maybe gain us info to feed to BOH.
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skrobism
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Should I follow up on this tonight?
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skrobism
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Agreed. I will contact AM.
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skrobism
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Sent an email to AM:
quote:
Masters of Morpork,
Greetings and praise to you. Our nations have an outstanding and unsigned treaty. Babylon would like to discuss some of the finer points of this treaty and get it signed tonight.
I will be on MSN all day and much of tonight. I have been authorized to negotiate and sign this treaty with you. Babylon looks forward to a lasting peace and the ability to study science and culture in our corner of the world.
I look forward to our meeting.
Regards,
-Skrobism
Vox Inannum
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skrobism
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Ormuzd PM'd me looking for an MSN chat, but the id he sent does not have an MSN passport. I contacted him about that saying that we want to work out details and sign this pact.
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skrobism
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He sent me his real MSN id but I have yet to see him online. What's up?
Are we really that bad off that we should Vassalize like this?
But this is the best way to screw them. I like it. I do want to demand that we settle the new cities BEFORE we surrender the existing ones.
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E_T
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Orlando, Florida
Mar 2001
time: 00:34
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Yes, make sure that it's o.k. with them, to get the settlers from IT, Kurra, Babylon & Hookah, before we send them to them. Tell them, that we will rush them soon, but haven;t as of yet, because wanting to confirm it;s o.k. with them.
Also, we do need to get the workers over to Potamia, so that our Capitol goes where we want it to. Rivers and all in way....
But we will be adding one this next turn (not really, grows naturally). With others coming shortly after.
E_T
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skrobism
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I got a PM from him. Another email address! Is he F-ing with us?
quote:
ok, I really apologize for being so stupid. my screen name is todor_georgiev@hotmail.com (this time it is certain because I have copied it from the login screen)
I'll online in the two hours and probably in the evening which should be during the day for you. I hope we could make an agreement and play the turn after this.
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For 3 days I've been watching for todor_georgiev@msn.com to come online! Now this!
I was gone all day. I will be on MSN all night. I will check the PC periodically for him to ping me but he is off line.
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E_T
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Orlando, Florida
Mar 2001
time: 00:34
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Krill's back, seen him in chat for a short bit
quote:
[E_T> On another note, Skro has been trying to get with you all, about getting the treaty signed
[E_T> and get this, BoH is pressuring us for peace, at a price
No such nick/channel
[E_T> [E_T> On another note, Skro has been trying to get with you all, about getting the treaty signed
[E_T> [E_T> and get this, BoH is pressuring us for peace, at a price
[E_T> No such nick/channel
[Krill> Sorry
[Krill> damned wireless router is acting up
[E_T> k
[E_T> let me pull up what thy want
[E_T> PLATO says:
[E_T> 1.) Babylon to transfer 900 gold to BOH upon declaring peace. 2.) Babylon will provide the next two techs it researches to BOH...any delay in transfer will result in immediate resumption of hostilities, 3.) Babylon to provide two settlers to settle cities at location of BOH choosing and then immediately gift cities to BOH, 4.) Babylon to pay tribute of 20 gpt for 20 turns
[E_T> we thought that was funny
[E_T> and they say that have 20+ units headed our way, though they've been headed our war for some time
[Krill> Yup. It is
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he's talking about it being funny, not the SoD
quote:
[E_T> we thought it might be disinformation, as to discize the real target
[Krill> Thining about that, it really aint going to happen.
[Krill> I would definately agree to the second point though
[E_T> I know you have lots of scouts out, have you seen them?
[Krill> 50 turn research is really going to piss BOH off.
[Krill> I have not seen that many scout.
[Krill> scouts
[Krill> maybe 4 or 5
[Krill> but that is normal, though.
[E_T> so you have no knowledge of this impending  SoD
[E_T> we thought it might be a smokescreen
[Krill> The last save that I opened was 1175 BC save
[E_T> with BoH trying to play us off on others
[E_T> well, I've got to get back to yard, just post anything else here
[E_T> and try to get with skro
[E_T> please, he's been frantic, trying to get hold of you and Ormuzd
[Krill> I will be around all day for the next week
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E_T
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skrobism
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I just got htis from Ormuzd via PM.
quote:
it seems this is the only we communicate
krill is already back and we are going to play our turn later tonight
I have asked you to give us peace and right of passage and to move all your troops west if you accept the treaty. You did not.
We had a lot of time to talk and clear details but we didn't although there was a good will by both sides.
I really hope we will find the time to talk and complete this matter. If you do not accept the treaty, feel free to inform us.
Until then we are thinking we are at war and we will continue sticking to our original plan.
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What the hell does he want? He gave me two bad MSN IDs and emails. I will sign in to MSN to see If I can close the deal.
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skrobism
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My reply via PM.
quote:
What do you want? You gave me two bad MSN IDs and emails. I will sign in to MSN to see if we can close the deal. Babylon wants peace. The treaty looks mostly good. Better for you of course, but we'll take it.
We have questions about the exact timing of the city transfers. We want these clarified first.
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skrobism
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I just got done speaking with Krill.
They will send peace and we should accept.
We can build settlers before the transfer.
They promise to protect us from BOH.
You will read of two more requests: 1 - we cut our roads to the horses; 2 - send a screenie of Kurra when this is done.
If you read I agreed to the screenie, but I don't think I actually agreed to cutting the horses.
I was also able to get him to make some comments about BOh and the palace jump. I hope to use this later with BOH. 
AM wishes to speak with 1889 about an all out war on BOH. I will ask 1889 not to allow AM into the private forum.
quote:
Krill says:
ping
Krill says:
I'm back, but my wireless router has not been stable since I got back, so if I drop, I might be a while...
Skrobism says:
OK.
Skrobism says:
We have a treaty that needs signing.
Skrobism says:
hello?
Krill says:
we do.
Skrobism says:
Babylon feels the need to sign this or perish.
Skrobism says:
We'd like to continue living in peace.
Krill says:
we And we would like to go back to peace.
Krill says:
But we need one thing more. We need you to disconnect your horses, and a picture of Kurra, next turn, to show that the road is cut
Skrobism says:
Why? How can we be of any use to you in mutual protection without horses?
Skrobism says:
hello?
Krill says:
Can I be blunt?
Skrobism says:
yes.
Krill says:
We need to be absolutely certain that you can not turn the settler builds into Horses
Krill says:
and, after sending out some feelers to BOH, a peace treaty with them would be alot easier if you cut the horses.
Skrobism says:
Peace with BOH? Do you know what that will cost you? I barely got a cease fire out of them. For peace they wanted 900g + 20g/t + 2 techs + 2 cities. I don't think they are serious about peace with an offer like that. We stuck to the cease fire.
Krill says:
The two techs is not a problem
Krill says:
you just have to reseach at a 5o turn pace.
Krill says:
50
Skrobism says:
um BOH won't be getting that out of us.
Krill says:
And I don't think they want war with every civ in the game
Skrobism says:
But that is what they have.
Krill says:
Any BOH force that comes down to attack you has to pass next to either LB or our borders
Skrobism says:
Right. And at loeast we had horses. Now what?
Krill says:
We hit them if they try to atack you
Krill says:
we are building another force of WC in the Core to attack them with if they try anything stupid
Krill says:
the army that is in your lands will stay there, and wil be re inforced
Skrobism says:
I don't think we can send screenies of our lands to you to feed them to BOH. BOH still considers us the enemy. Why would we send intel to BOH?
Krill says:
Why would we send screenies of lans that are shortly going to belong to use? We would be shooting ourselves in the foot.
Krill says:
And even if BOH tried to attack you, it will take them a minimum of 5 turns just to reach Kurra
Skrobism says:
I thought it was to aide in your discussions with BOH.
Krill says:
You can black out all of the detail of the city (amount of gold generated, city improvements etc.) Just leave the view of the terrain.
Krill says:
and defineately blackout the city garrison
Skrobism says:
Will do. I guess this falls under our mutual co-operation and friendship.
Krill says:
preety much.
Skrobism says:
The WC sound like they can protect both of us against the horde.
Skrobism says:
Does the building of these go back to the palace jump and their eventual intended target?
Krill says:
They help.
Krill says:
Sorry, I don't understand.
Skrobism says:
We're you not talking with Beta or E_T about a palace jump?
Krill says:
Yeah, we are going to palace jump to your lands shortly in the future, after finishing the FP.
Skrobism says:
That should do a lot to move it to safer ground.
Krill says:
yeah, unless LB decide to invade.
Skrobism says:
We are on great terms with LB. I think 1889's on complaint of AM is your attack of Babylon. Now, AM and Babylon have peace. I would not worry about LB.
Skrobism says:
only complaint
Skrobism says:
hello?
Krill says:
hmm. I think I should try to chat with 1889 again.
Krill says:
talk about the all against BOH alliance.
Skrobism says:
Anything is possible. But right now. The LB forum is only talking about mutual defense not offense. I don't think 1889 wants a world war. But that is for the powerful to decide. Babylon obviously has little say in the world's events.
Krill says:
I don't want war either
Krill says:
All I want in this game is to finish colonization and build up for a later war.
Skrobism says:
* I have a phone call here at work. hold on, - still want to discuss the city transfer. HOLD ON.
Skrobism says:
Babylon just wants to continue to live in peace - study science and culture. War is NOT our way.
Skrobism says:
re Cities:
Skrobism says:
Babylon wants to know that we can build our settlers before the transfer.
Krill says:
Whatever happens with the first city transfer, you will always have Potamia and tammuz to build the settlers.
Krill says:
We will send peace this turn, accepted. You accept it your end, and send an RoP to us, accepted. We accept that. If this happens, we will let you build a settler in every town, and then gift the cities to us.
Skrobism says:
agreed
Krill says:
You can keep Tammuz and Potamia until you have finished the recolinization, and built enough workers (say, about 10)
Krill says:
Then gift those cities to use.
Krill says:
to us.
Krill says:
Have I sent you a picture of what land you will have?
Skrobism says:
I think a screenie was sent a while ago to E_T or Beta. We get to become desert nomads. Hooray!
Skrobism says:
Send it again to make sure we have the same copy.
Krill says:
you get two city sites to the south west of Heliopolis and TMR
Krill sends:
Skrobism says:
yes. that too.
You have failed to receive file "Babylonian cities, Vassal treaty.JPG" from Krill.
Skrobism says:
transfer failed.
Krill says:
If you give me an email addy to send it to, I'll send it now
Skrobism says:
theidiots@yahoo.com
Skrobism says:
OK. we have a deal.
Krill says:
sent
Krill says:
Yep, It's a deal
Skrobism says:
You won't be pulling us into a fight with BOH too soon will you?
Krill says:
No. Ideally, you won't ever have to fight
Krill says:
block the coast, it is always a possibilty, though
Krill says:
so we would like you to keep some units around, but not many.
Skrobism says:
excellent. we'd prefer to stay behind AM while you wage war.
Skrobism says:
of course we'd send some units.
Skrobism says:
you will co-ordinate that.
Krill says:
To be perfectly honest, it would probably just be easier, if we needed to, for you to build catapults for us and we capture them off you, instead of fall co-ordination. Atleast, for this era. If this game somehow reaches the ind era, then you will need to be ready to defend.
Skrobism says:
of course, but we first need to rebuild. We have a nation to move.
Skrobism says:
Is that all? I will post this and make sure peace is accepted. I will put in a good word for AM at the LB forum, but remember that is more of a mutual defense arrangment NOT offense. I would not look for 1889 to lead a war against BOH.
Skrobism says:
hello?
Krill says:
hi
Skrobism says:
anything else? Did you get my last post about LB?
Krill says:
Yeah, I can't think of anything else.
Skrobism says:
OK. Send peace. We'll accept and start the process of vassalization. Have a good night.
Krill says:
Thank you. I hope that we have a long a hapy relationship. Have a good evening your self.
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skrobism
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Thank you. It's much easier to have self control via a chat than in person. The people around my cube must have been wondering what I was muttering about.
Regarding the game. There is no way that we can win. I would like to see what role we can play in the game. Being a long term vassal of AM or BOH is out of the question. I'd like to see what can be done as a small nation, but I don't want to be someone's b 1 tch.
BOH at least had an excuse. They are really playing up the whole Mongol Horde thing. What is AM's excuse? "Sorry. We wanted some land. You understand - right?"
I'm all in favor of allowing the Horde to secretly invade via our new coastal nation right up AM's back door.
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skrobism
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Sorry for the delay. I got this yesterday in an email that I do not use.
quote:
Hi Skro,
Me and Ormuzd have discussed things a little further. We've come to the decision
(well, really it is mostly due to BOH and the peace between you and BOH) that it
we need the cities of Kurra and Inannas throne asap, ie sent to us next turn
accepted. Then when we have finished building a road between our civs we can
gift you iron and horses (and estimated 5 turns until that happens).
Krill
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my response...
quote:
Krill,
We don't have a peace with BOH. They made it very clear this was a turn to turn cease fire. BOH also made it clear that their reported 20 unit stack is still coming for us if this cease fire does not suit their needs. I fear this is just to put our minds at ease until the BOH Grey Wolf Army is at our door.
I find your new demands disturbing. We had a deal. Is this the second deal that you are backing out of before the ink is dry? I know we are to become your vassals but is this how things are to be through out our new friendship?
-Skrobism
Vox Inannum
(Future emails should be sent to theidiots@yahoo.com. I don't use this for anything except MSN IMs.)
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Now what?
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Beta
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Prowling in a PBEM near you!
Nov 2002
time: 00:34
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to Krill and Ormuzd after the 1075bc save was sent: (hope this does the job. )
quote:
Heloo gentleemen, Beta here.
I am stepping in to play our turn. E_t is away on a job interview I think - and we are laready passed the 24 hours. I know the other teams are alreadty upset with us. Anyways, E_T left some quick instructions, and I brielfy checked our forum and the discussions between you and skro. So - in advanace, my apologies if I did not get this all corrrect.
E_T's instructins were cryptic at best, and from what I gather from skro's stuff, we have recahed a peace settlement - although I am not sure of the exact details or if the agreement is signed or not.(soory - but I have been busy at work - and I have just gotten back from a dinner with my wife. The wine we had was very nice.  )
Therefore, I did not accept the peace deal you ahve offered. I think we can do it next turn around once E_T amd skro have provided firm instructions and the NAP signed. I have cut our access to horses - as I recall that being a requirement. Our troops are ready to move out to the SW, and some are already on their way. You also mentioned something about peace with BOH. I know skro has been negotiating - but the best we have been able to achieve so far is a turn by turn cease fire.
btw - what did you think of 1889's call for an alliance against BOH??? Interesting, no???
Anyways - once again - thanks for your patience this turn. Hopefully E_T, srko, and I can get together this weekend and caht, and we can finalize our deal. And get the evacuation details ironed out.
Cheers. ...beta. |
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10-08-2005 12:20
I believe we have plenty of units under construction already, they would be made from more than just the cease fire production. 
skro had some minor details to resolve, and I don't know where he is right now, but we are prepared to sign it. If he does not show up later this afternoon or evening, send me another e-mail and I can get it resolved. Thank you. ..Beta.
), and add that I have moved the bulk of our forces to the SW. If AM thinks that there only one or two units in IT, they may attack. 
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