05-04-2005 17:40									#61
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor I mean, it's not like my Songhai could ever switch to calvinism

But there are events that most (all?) pagan countries that give the chance to convert to cathicolism later on in the game.

quote: There's basically no doubt that I will win in 1819, considering that I'm way ahead of the competition at half-game (the Dutch have just seceded). I think next time I'll play with a country that's more difficult, but which still has resources. I was terrified by "three times 8000 pop" Britanny

You might yet run into some problems that could prevent you from 'winning' - as you grow bigger, it becomes harder to control stability, and as your reputation worsens, badboy wars become more likely. And there could be a few scripted events down the line, aswell... not the least of which would be the french revolution in the case of your game. (But I think that requires the existance of the United States, which is often quite rare)

	05-04-2005 21:29									#62
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor I just played with France for a few hours. And I must say France PWNs Songhai bigtime.

please, on this forum the only folks who pawn should be the Medici - if youre not playing as Tuscany find some other way of saying it

	05-04-2005 21:34									#63
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im up to 1514 - whats with the fugger event - there should be SOME benefit to taking the ahistorical choice, or why would anyone take it? Just for the Alt historical experience?

Also with colonies - i understand if you have a lot of colonies that dont have cities yet, this reduces chances/increases costs of new colonies. right? Does that NOT apply if you have a lot of trading posts? Can I pain the map (of the Americas) yellow with TPs without screwing up my efforts on building up colonies?

Why is Aragon always at war? Is the AI for them programmed to super aggressive somehow, or have they just gotten themselves into a bad spot diplomatically. Seems theyre always at it with someone. Not wanting to join them in war, but still wanting to preserve them, ive taken to sending an army to destroy the rebels they tend to get in Bearn and Navarra.

Does TOT apply only to shield provinces?

	05-04-2005 21:38									#64
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark im up to 1514 - whats with the fugger event - there should be SOME benefit to taking the ahistorical choice, or why would anyone take it? Just for the Alt historical experience?

Roleplay, a challange, and just for the experience.

There's also a possibility that it can open up other events later on.

	05-04-2005 21:43									#65
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LOTM: The ToT applies to all shield provinces in America. However, they aren't regular shield provinces. You can attack all foreign holdings on your shields in America without any DoW f.ex. Also, after a century or what it was(I don't remember anymore), the ToT becomes null and void and the chance is gone, so hurry up.

	05-04-2005 21:44									#66
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quote: Originally posted by General Ludd Roleplay, a challange, and just for the experience. There's also a possibility that it can open up other events later on.

You avoid the bad events that makes you bankrupt I think.

EDIT: I just checked, and it appears I remembered wrong. But I know there is a "Fugger goes bankrupt" or something that gives you negative effects.

	05-04-2005 21:47									#67
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quote: Originally posted by Nikolai LOTM: The ToT applies to all shield provinces in America. However, they aren't regular shield provinces. You can attack all foreign holdings on your shields in America without any DoW f.ex. Also, after a century or what it was(I don't remember anymore), the ToT becomes null and void and the chance is gone, so hurry up.

but england has a holding on a North American prov that ISNT a Spanish shield prov, its same as always right? I need to DOW, get BB pts, stab hit, etc?

	05-04-2005 21:49									#68
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Yes, then it's not part of the ToT.

	05-04-2005 21:57									#69
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quote: Originally posted by Nikolai Yes, then it's not part of the ToT.

Ok, as far as the game is concerned.

But :

"[I.] That, whereas a certain controversy exists between the said lords, their constituents, as to what lands, of all those discovered in the ocean sea up to the present day, the date of this treaty, pertain to each one of the said parts respectively; therefore, for the sake of peace and concord, and for the preservation of the relationship and love of the said King of Portugal for the said King and Queen of Castile, Aragon, etc., it being the pleasure of their Highnesses, they, their said representatives, acting in their name and by virtue of their powers herein described, covenanted and agreed that a boundary or straight line be determined and drawn north and south, from pole to pole, on the said ocean sea, from the Arctic to the Antarctic pole. This boundary or line shall be drawn straight, as aforesaid, at a distance of three hundred and seventy leagues west of the Cape Verde Islands, being calculated by degrees, or by any other manner as may be considered the best and readiest, provided the distance shall be no greater than abovesaid. And all lands, both islands and mainlands, found and discovered already, or to be found and discovered hereafter, by the said King of Portugal and by his vessels on this side of the said line and bound determined as above, toward the east, in either north or south latitude, on the eastern side of the said bound provided the said bound is not crossed, shall belong to, and remain in the possession of, and pertain forever to, the said King of Portugal and his successors. And all other lands, both islands and mainlands, found or to be found hereafter, discovered or to be discovered hereafter, which have been discovered or shall be discovered by the said King and Queen of Castile, Aragon, etc., and by their vessels, on the western side of the said bound, determined as above, after having passed the said bound toward the west, in either its north or south latitude, shall belong to, and remain in the possession of, and pertain forever to, the said King and Queen of Castile, Leon, etc., and to their successors. "


Not a word about shield provinces.

	06-04-2005 03:17									#70
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It's not just America as Portugal gets shields on most of coastal Africa through the ToT. Spiffor, if France is to easy try a medium sized power like Sweden or Brandenburg. Austria is harder then Frence with fewer good leaders but still pretty easy. The Turks are harder still but not to bad. If you feel like a conquest game and you're ready to put up with some really bad events then Russia could be for you.

	06-04-2005 08:29									#71
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I'm having an interesting game as Savoy. Chipped away at the Dauphin's territory with an English-Aragonese alliance. Burgandy swallowed up France, then became France. It was really powerful, and would've kicked my ass, but there was an event for France that apparantly vassalized Burgandy, taking away most of France's territory. Meanwhile, Milan (with 4 provinces) dowed my, and I vassalized it. Burgandy got into BB-alliance wars, and everyone (including me and France) chumped on it. After that, I took several Franch territories and vassalized Milan. England keeps pulling me into wars with Scotland and Denmark, so I'm suffering from lots of war exhaustion and slow reduction in BB. I just lost my precious Flanders (my only CoT) from rebellion. Germany is split up into only several states, and is worrying me. I've gone all-naval, but still no explorers (circa ~1530). Thinking about annexing my rich Milanese vassal, but I don't think my BB could take it.

	06-04-2005 09:27									#72
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well sheesh - i thought attacking the Cherokee would be like a hot knife through butter, like most of the fights with unclaimed province natives. Attacked them, outnumbered 2 to 1. Well theyre quite tough, and beat me back - and THAT was the chance to really beat them - before theyd built up THEIR army. I should have waited till id had at least one city on the NA mainland, preferably 2, and a large army built up before DOWing - heck, I should have waited for the Aragonese inheritance, and thrown the Aragon army at them, instead of disbanding most of it.

Ive been taking my lumps so far, but this is so frustrating i may try to reload from before I DOWed Cherokee.

Game remains interesting.

	06-04-2005 12:36									#73
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If you get a CRT or two ahead of the natives then they're wimps. Also go after Maya, Aztec, and Inca/Chemu first since that is where the gold is located. Once you've converted a few of those gold proviences go after all the other native tribes and turbo annex them. You r goal is to conquor them before the other Europeans can convert them out of pagan religion as you want to convert them to your religion and culture. Do that and you will become unstoppable.

Ideally, you also want to reach the African pagans before they get converted as doing so will set you up for a world conquest.

	07-04-2005 02:49									#74
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin If you get a CRT or two ahead of the natives then they're wimps. Also go after Maya, Aztec, and Inca/Chemu first since that is where the gold is located. Once you've converted a few of those gold proviences go after all the other native tribes and turbo annex them. You r goal is to conquor them before the other Europeans can convert them out of pagan religion as you want to convert them to your religion and culture. Do that and you will become unstoppable. Ideally, you also want to reach the African pagans before they get converted as doing so will set you up for a world conquest.

The next combat results table happens at Land tech 5, no? Im only at land tech 4 i think. I really played the early part of the 1400s badly, and am not as far ahead in tech as i might be if i restarted now.

	07-04-2005 05:17									#75
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Land 9, IIRC.

	07-04-2005 10:35									#76
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This game rocks

I've started a new game as China. Had a little trouble at the beginning against Dai Viet (the war ended with a stalemate), but then it took off.

The Chinese have plenty of resources, but are restricted by the cost of tech (I was under the impression it was about 5 times more expansive than by the French). Besides, I was stupid enough to notice my 1419 explorer only a few months before his death, and I still haven't had any newer explorer since then (1580)

I did't waste time however: Manchuria is under my control, and I have made sure that Indochina is divided in vassal microstates My infrastructure is excellent (judges everywhere, 10 manufactories) and my tech isn't even too laughable.

The Chinese scripted events rock. They allow to do basically what would have benn the correct path for China: continue outward expansion, welcome foreign knowledge etc... Merely at the cost of stability (OK, the costs are often pretty harsh).

I have sent colonies as far as Pondicherry, in order to launch an expedition of discovery as soon as I have an explorer. So far, I only had one conquistador who mapped Indonesian islands and died in Siberia. My only problem is Austria, which is #1 far above me (I'm #2). Once I discover Europe, maybe I should meddle in European affairs to unite Europe against Austria

	07-04-2005 13:18									#77
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark The next combat results table happens at Land tech 5, no? Im only at land tech 4 i think. I really played the early part of the 1400s badly, and am not as far ahead in tech as i might be if i restarted now.

It's a learning experience. I generally move my sliders around alot. I'll put everything into one slider since you get results faster then dividing them between several sliders. Typically, I'll try to get a CRT in land tech then move to infastructure so I can improve my economy. Unless I'm playing a colonizing country I don't even bother with sea techs until I get governors.

	07-04-2005 13:22									#78
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

China only gets one explorer and anything else is by chance. I found China is good but it has some really bad civil war events which lead to a 30-50 period of endless rebellions. I've found I do best as China when I conquor the historical areas China conquored and then try to explore/colonize down the Siberian corridor. Invading India and southeast asia is just gravy.

	07-04-2005 13:31									#79
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Spiffor: Good to hear you like the game. As for China, that was my first EU2 game too, and I promise you, you'll have an interesting time ahead.

	08-04-2005 02:16									#80
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor This game rocks

Dont it now? It lives up to my high expectations.

	08-04-2005 02:22									#81
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Ok, i found a save game from 1512, before the Cherokee war. This time I stay at peace. Continue building up Roanoke, start a colony at St. Martin, and stay cool till I get the Charles events. Aragon has managed to lose Piedmont to Denmark(!) and south Italy to the Papal States, but thats ok, Ive got all of Spain, Sardinia, Sicily and Malta. This time I keep the Aragonese forces and send my old Spanish forces to America. In fact i started doing that in 1515 (hell, Ferdinand KNEW he was dying, no?) The Cherokee have 18000 troops, land tech 1, in Atlanta (or whatever). Ive got about 7000 in Santee, land tech 4. And about 6000 a few weeks sail away - and about 4000 departed the Azores. And yet MORE coming around from the Med.

Need to get back to promoting tax collectors in Aragon, but its only 1516.

	08-04-2005 21:02									#82
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March 1520. About 25000 Spanish troops in Santee under the command of Cortes, Stab back up to 2 after the Habsburg marriage and Communero rising events, military fully funded. All is ready - DOW as soon as I get back to it.

Conquer the Cherokee, and then head on towards Mexico?

	09-04-2005 02:22									#83
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Conquer Mexica, reduce your BB (which should be fairly high after annexing Aragon and the Aztecs), convert the pagan provinces, etc., then go for the Cherokee at your leisure. You probably don't want war with a unified France right now. As I've been saying, there really is no hurry wrt the N Amerindians.

	09-04-2005 02:40									#84
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As for my Savoy game (~1640), I've colonized the Carib, and am in perfect position to annex the Aztecs once my BB goes down (after annexing Milan - much of Northern Italy, my rating is "rather bad"). So I have nearly all of the French cultured provinces, Northern Italy, half of Sicily, and most of the Carribean.

I have two real problems - France and the Habsburgs. France is reduced to Paris and Brittany, but I don't want Britanny (seeing as I don't have Celtic as state culture), and France is still able to have 60-70,000 troop army in Paris. It's also allied to Geldre, which controls the low countries, and is thus a fairly large nuissance. I really want Paris because I still don't have a CoT. So the only option I can see is to vassalize France by force of arms, but that would be an expensive pain.

Castile (hadn't annexed Aragon) is a fairly large state and can easily harrass my colonies, but the big problem is her ally, Austria. It has most of Germany as well as Hungary, and there's no natural ally to oppose her. I could very easily lose a war with the Habsburgs. Austria also controls Mantua, an Italian cultured province (thus my personal fief) and every other only land connection to Venice, a major irritant with a huge navy that DoWs me every 5 years for no reason that I can see.

	09-04-2005 03:05									#85
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo I have two real problems - France and the Habsburgs. France is reduced to Paris and Brittany, but I don't want Britanny (seeing as I don't have Celtic as state culture)

I thought Britanny became French cultured after a certain date. Same as Wales becomes Anglo-Saxon after a certain time. Can't quite remember how it pans out or what the requirements are though.

	10-04-2005 03:43									#86
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With all this talk about EU, I started playing again recently... but ran into something that caused me to end my game prematurely, and is something remember experiencing last time I played aswell: Never ending wars.


I was playing as Genoa and joined an alliance with Tuscany, Modena, Siena, Duchy of Athens, and the Papal States, a few years into the game they got into a war on Byzantium. I signed a seperate white peace because I didn't really care about it, and they continued to fight. After a few years, the Ottomans hold constantinople and duchy of athens holds byzantium's second province. 5 later, no peace has been made, and nothing new has happened in the war. I save the game and load, thinking the AI has fallen into a lapse, and it does prompt the ottomans to sign a white peace, and then tuscany takes constantiople. Again, no peace is made. I try save/loading again, but to no effect. It's now 70 years later, and nothing has changed. To make matters worse, another war was started with Albania and even though Duchy of Athens has conquered their only province, they've just sat on it for two decades like they have with Byzantium and refused to annex them.

	10-04-2005 04:07									#87
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I've seen that happen before. Best bet is to reload as Dutchy of Athens, make peace for them with whoever you need to, and then return to Genoa. (Without unpausing, so that the AI won't screw up your nation.)

	10-04-2005 04:42									#88
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I hadn't thought of that.

	10-04-2005 10:19									#89
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i conquered the cherokee, and went and conquered the aztecs. which leads to two things. about events.

I had sent a missionary to one of the cherokee provs - first time id used the feature - im supposed to get (if it hits) both a religion change AND a culture change, since these are pagans, right? well just before my missionary is done, i get an EVENT popup that says a prov has converted, and its the one where my missionary was - and the religion changed, but NOT the culture? what happened here - bad luck? Did i misunderstand the rule AND the popup?

second - well into my war with the aztecs, i get inherit aztecs event (which i recall hearing about, but had forgotten). Actually that makes sense, cause historically Spain got the Aztecs with hardly any effort - OTOH I suppose most players wouldnt bother trying to conquer if they know theres an event - but then maybe thats historically justified.

	10-04-2005 10:52									#90
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Event conversions don't change culture only religion. I'd reload and try again because you realy don't want those event conversions to happen to your pagans.