11-04-2005 14:54									#91
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark i get an EVENT popup that says a prov has converted, and its the one where my missionary was - and the religion changed, but NOT the culture? what happened here - bad luck? Did i misunderstand the rule AND the popup?

Bad luck. I usually just live with this. You can reload or it may be possible to edit the province culture in the save file.

quote: second - well into my war with the aztecs, i get inherit aztecs event (which i recall hearing about, but had forgotten). Actually that makes sense, cause historically Spain got the Aztecs with hardly any effort - OTOH I suppose most players wouldnt bother trying to conquer if they know theres an event - but then maybe thats historically justified.

You just need to take the Aztec capital province and they fold. If you are really lucky they often annex the Maya before you take them so you get the Maya territory as a bonus.

It is best to push on south and take the Inca soon. It is a lot easier whilst you have the conquistadors Pizzarro and Cortez to lead your armies and they are both dead by about 1540.

	11-04-2005 17:07									#92
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If you want to get European maps as China then the best way is to attack through the Mongal lands west of China and move throught the weak Tamerid Empire before it collapses. From there you attack either the Ottomans or the Egyptians depending upon who has land conntecting to the Tamerids. All you have to do is take each bridging country's capital so you get their map then demand a right of passage in order to sign peace.

	11-04-2005 20:02									#93
	Inflate your Upload Space

Oerdin: That's a good strategy. It should remove the whiteman penalty quite fast.(I think the Chinese get that penalty)

	11-04-2005 21:06									#94
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by CerberusIV Bad luck. I usually just live with this. You can reload or it may be possible to edit the province culture in the save file. You just need to take the Aztec capital province and they fold. If you are really lucky they often annex the Maya before you take them so you get the Maya territory as a bonus. It is best to push on south and take the Inca soon. It is a lot easier whilst you have the conquistadors Pizzarro and Cortez to lead your armies and they are both dead by about 1540.

I can live with the bad conversion.From a historical RP perspective, why shouldnt i once in a while have a province where conversion occured but local ethnicity stuck?

Aztec capital - sounds like theyre trying to immitate history, kinda sorta = you take the capital and then the entire unstable empire collapses like a house of cards. I didnt know that, but then Spain didnt either - they let Cortes do the work cause the crown was too strapped.

Right now im working on the Mayans, but will get in position to go after the Incas.

	11-04-2005 21:09									#95
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

speaking of map trading, what are your thoughts on that from Spains POV? Portugal doesnt want to trade. Lots of lesser powers probably would, since ive got a lot of info and they have only a little - but do I want to spread the map to too many people? I dont want more old world powers in the Americas. OTOH I can use their maps better than they can use mine - maybe - i dont really have the wherewithal to go into say the Indian Ocean now anyway. OTOH France and England all well into the new world anyway - if they are, what does it matter if more come in - OTOH I really DONT want Venice to come over.

	11-04-2005 22:57									#96
	Increase Your PM Length

I wouldn't map trade. Some minor and medium nations will usually set up colonies, complicating things in New World. Of course, that might be more fun...

	12-04-2005 02:05									#97
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quote: Originally posted by Sandman I wouldn't map trade. Some minor and medium nations will usually set up colonies, complicating things in New World. Of course, that might be more fun...

I dont need extra challenge yet, so i probably wont map trade.

Related - France coming into the new world wasnt a problem at ALL - they established 2 TPs on my shield provs in the west indies - i send a small force to land, it waltzes in, and voila - free TPs for Spain! Finally the TOT pays off!

	12-04-2005 03:24									#98
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I never map trade. If I want to see someone's map I just take their capital and then I have it.

	12-04-2005 20:27									#99
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quote: Originally posted by General Ludd With all this talk about EU, I started playing again recently... but ran into something that caused me to end my game prematurely, and is something remember experiencing last time I played aswell: Never ending wars. I was playing as Genoa and joined an alliance with Tuscany, Modena, Siena, Duchy of Athens, and the Papal States, a few years into the game they got into a war on Byzantium. I signed a seperate white peace because I didn't really care about it, and they continued to fight. After a few years, the Ottomans hold constantinople and duchy of athens holds byzantium's second province. 5 later, no peace has been made, and nothing new has happened in the war. I save the game and load, thinking the AI has fallen into a lapse, and it does prompt the ottomans to sign a white peace, and then tuscany takes constantiople. Again, no peace is made. I try save/loading again, but to no effect. It's now 70 years later, and nothing has changed. To make matters worse, another war was started with Albania and even though Duchy of Athens has conquered their only province, they've just sat on it for two decades like they have with Byzantium and refused to annex them.

I think this is because you used the beta patches. In the old beta patch(a new one came today), there was a rule change that turned out to be not perfect, making neverending AI vs AI wars. That is corrected in the new patch of today.

	13-04-2005 21:48									#100
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Damn you all, I am now going to have to find my copy of EU2 and try it again.



ACK!

	14-04-2005 07:36									#101
	Increase Your PM Length

I have resumed my game as Chine (I'm now in 1790).

The revolt-events were truly harsh I expected something bad, but it was really serious: the revolt-maluses accumulate for a very long period of time (and they don't go away normally: I had the ill effects of a meteor sighting last for more than 5 years). And they completely annihilate pretty much every possibility to recruit troops, except in the capitol

Fortunately, once this moment has passed, the game becomes much easier. I have spent a whole century without any significant problem, and I am now #1 far above the others. I have explored all the seas on the map, and almost all the land. I have prosperous colonies in India, Central America and Indonesia/Philippines (almost nothing in Siberia however), and I'm at peace with my neighbours thanks to a spotless reputation.

I have avoided to conquer too much (except Manchuria and Korea), because I can't convert the heretics. I much prefer to colonize empty lands, in order to spread my Han/Konfucian culture, without any compatibility problem

	14-04-2005 15:52									#102
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Sounds like you both are having a blast in your first games! I'll bump some threads that might prove beneficial to folks just starting out....

-=Vel=-

	14-04-2005 21:26									#103
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Velociryx Sounds like you both are having a blast in your first games!

Absolutely - havent gotten into a game this much since Civ2.

	14-04-2005 21:51									#104
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Sounds like you're on the right track...keep yer nose clean, develop that econ, and you'll be able to tackle anything that comes your way. As Spain, YOU are the Euro superpower, so even if France gets pushy, with good management of your assets, you should be able to stick it to them!

-=Vel=-

	15-04-2005 11:50									#105
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I have finished my game as China, finger in the nose

I have started a new game as Brittany. It is MUCH harder.

Britanny is a poor little country with no industry of any significance. In comparison to the French neighbour, everything Breton sucks: the base tax sucks, the manpower sucks, the productions suck.

During the 100 years war, it's "obvious" that you have to take Vendee and Maine, because the French won't be able to claim it any soon. The rub is that Maine belongs to Provence, and they'll never give it up unless you prune them at home, right at the other end of France... And to do that, you need tons of troops, i.e tons of deficit, bankrupcies, and inflation (Britanny can only support 24,000 men).

Anyhow, I eventually managed to conquer all of the Atlantic Coast of France. I was also instrumental in Englands fall into irrelevance (England is now only Anglia + American colonies) although I didn't get any territory on the British Isles.

After the end of the hundred year war, the Bourgignon succession, and the defeat of Britain, France has become horribly threatening. It basically owns all historical provinces, bar mine. And because of its huge resources (manpower, money, tech, and maybe an inflation that's not crippling), my only hope was to side with them... That's why I willingly became France's vassal. My weak economy is of course much worse because of that: when France annexed me, only 8 gold ended up in my coffers. About 150 years later (and as much colonization as I could), I make only 20 gold per month.

Britanny is a really harsh choice of country, but it's really exciting too. I don't think I have ever been hooked that much in any of my games

	15-04-2005 15:54									#106
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Try conquoring the world with Trebizond.

Loan sharking is the only way to make that work.

	15-04-2005 15:55									#107
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Another interesting one is to be one of the Hindu states and try to liberate India from the muslim rule before all of the Hindus get converted. It can be done but is very difficult without resorting to cheating or exploits.

	19-04-2005 00:41									#108
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Denmark is quite fun, I gotten some good events (annexing Norway, Holstein, and Oldenberg). I am still wondering if I should either conquer Sweden and some of the little German principalities and carve out a continental empire, or start colonizing North America and get rich off of Virginia tobacco.

	22-04-2005 07:08									#109
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China is a very easy country. It's 1600 and I've conquored Manchu, Korea, Vietnam (minus one hindu minor in the south), Loas, Tibet, Chinga-tai, and I've vasalized all the remaining buddhist nations of southeast asia. Currently I have 4 manufactures (3 fine arts, 1 distillery) and I've colonized most of Indonesia along with 5-6 proviences in Siberia. China's 6 land tech and 5 sea tech while most of the Euros are 12/6 but I won't be fighting Euros so it really doesn't matter.

I'm starting to get bored since the AI doesn't really fight back.

	22-04-2005 16:13									#110
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The rebels will soon fight back on you Evil Empire!

	22-04-2005 18:44									#111
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They've been fighting back like a bunch of sore losers.

	22-04-2005 21:50									#112
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

How do you sequence developments in conquered new world pagan provinces - improvements first, or conversion first? and why?

on the one hand putting in a tax collector into a wrong religion, wrong culture prov, increased revolt risk. OTOH missionaries are damned expensive, given that you have to send several per province, and Id like to have more ducats first.

	22-04-2005 23:11									#113
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I always convert the pagans first, except when it comes to the two fantastically wealthy provinces in the Aztec empire.

	23-04-2005 04:34									#114
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quote: Originally posted by Nikolai I always convert the pagans first, except when it comes to the two fantastically wealthy provinces in the Aztec empire.

Me too. Convert first, then build. (Unless I'm running short on missionaries, then I'll start building tax collectors or governor's offices while I'm waiting for more).

	23-04-2005 19:45									#115
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark How do you sequence developments in conquered new world pagan provinces - improvements first, or conversion first? and why?

For pagan provinces I always convert before promoting a tax collector due to the RR. If it is later in the game and I have Infra 5 I often promote a governor first to help keep inflation down (or rather to increase how much I can mint before inflation rises) but even then I leave tax collectors until after conversion.

One issue here is how good your monarchs are as the monarchs admin rating affects the % chance of a successful conversion. In the case of Spain, Isabel y Fernando is good, as is the next monarch and the one after that is OK but from about 1560 onwards they are pretty poor. So I usually mint enough money to get the pagans converted whilst I have a decent monarch and worry about getting inflation down with governors later in the game.

For Spain conversions and colonising, both of which increase your non-gold income, are the best things to spend money on.

	24-04-2005 04:51									#116
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Remember, infrastructure, infrastructure, infrastructure. Try and hit Infra level 5 before bothering with anything else. When you do that, youre economy will be so strong that you will make up the difference in other areas very quickly.

	24-04-2005 07:52									#117
	Got spare money?

Infra 5 rocks: the ability to hoard money without inflation is really a huge boon.

However, as such, Infra doesn't bring nearly as much money as trade. In my current game (Portugal GC, 1770), I have really begun to take off when my trade was beginning to soar. I make about 80 a month from taxes + production (despite having settled like crazy), and I make about 260 a month from trade.

Trade is something too serious to be left automated. When I automated trade, I had only one monopoly or two (in Lisboa). When I stopped automating, and did the trade myself, I reached 15 monopolies in a few years, and my trade income almost doubled, despite my politics becoming more mercantilist (special event). Besides, managing trade myself allowed me to see who my trade rivals were, and to make them sign timely trade agreements (i.e., when I was the monopolist of their CoT)

	24-04-2005 08:13									#118
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Infra 5 rocks: the ability to hoard money without inflation is really a huge boon. However, as such, Infra doesn't bring nearly as much money as trade. In my current game (Portugal GC, 1770), I have really begun to take off when my trade was beginning to soar. I make about 80 a month from taxes + production (despite having settled like crazy), and I make about 260 a month from trade.

But once you get infra 3 you can start building breweries and not have to worry about funding trade research.

quote: Trade is something too serious to be left automated. When I automated trade, I had only one monopoly or two (in Lisboa). When I stopped automating, and did the trade myself, I reached 15 monopolies in a few years, and my trade income almost doubled, despite my politics becoming more mercantilist (special event). Besides, managing trade myself allowed me to see who my trade rivals were, and to make them sign timely trade agreements (i.e., when I was the monopolist of their CoT)

I can rarely hold a monopoly for more than a couple months, unless it's in some real far away exotic location that has almost no competition at all.

	24-04-2005 08:52									#119
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quote: I can rarely hold a monopoly for more than a couple months, unless it's in some real far away exotic location that has almost no competition at all.

I have signed trade agreements with pretty much every European power. As such, I only compete against weak nations (often exotic ones, that don't even know how to have a monopoly). Getting a monopoly in a Euro ToC takes more time that way, but they last longer. And the exotic countries are little threat to my commercial might.

But it's important to know who threatens you, so that you can strike good deals with them.

	24-04-2005 10:22									#120
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Before tonight I hadn't attempted to convert anyone. Seemed too costly and with low percentage chances of success (still playing my first game).

however tonight I sent out 4-5 Missionaries over a period of 10 or so years and have 100% success rate so far. It seems very much to be worth the investment, though I am not positive of the benefits beyond decreased revolt risk (does it also increase the tax value or trade value or both.....or perhaps the population?). I seemed to get increases in my gold after ever successful completion too......what's that about?

Anyhow, it is too late to convert many more as I am at about 1811 and most of the conversions left would take longer then the end of the game to complete I will keep this in mind for Game #2 however

* Sparrowhawk