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Peter Triggs
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Gone Fishin, Canada
Jan 2000
time: 05:35
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quote:
Originally posted by St Leo
25
quote:
9- See front-line service in the army. |
25
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Yes, I see your reasoning here.
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Immortal Wombat
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in perpetuity
Dec 2000
time: 05:35
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Leave full-time education.
16- largely because if 16 years olds really don't want to be educated, they're quite likely to make the last two years of school worse for those who do.
Drive a car.
16
Drive a heavy goods vehicle or bus.
Probably 18 would be the minimum, if they've been driving since 16. I think this should be an abilities thing rather than age-based. I wouldn't feel comfortable driving a bus at 20, but I know 18 year olds who would, and who could drive it well given the training.
Work a 12-hour shift down a coal mine.
16, but ideally separate legislation on working conditions would render this impossible anyway.
Have sex, Buy porn
14
Though personally I would probably discourage 14 year olds from exercising these liberties.
Appear in porn in an obvious state of physical arousal.
18
Get married.
16
See front-line service in the army.
18
Own a 12-bore shotgun.
18
Vote.
16
Become President.
25
Have a credit card, personal loan or mortgage.
16
Adopt children.
25
Gamble.
16
Get executed.
16, although again, ideally this should also be impossible.
Buy a pet. Like a Pit Bull or a Python, or something.
16
Drink alcohol
12
Buy alcohol, tobacco
16
So
16: rights granted to allow the individual to live their life
18: rights granted to allow the individual to **** up their life
25: rights granted to allow the individual control over other lives
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Odin
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Biology Nerd at Minnesota State University Moorhead
Sep 2000
time: 23:35
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1- Leave full-time education.
18
2- Drive a car.
16
3- Drive a heavy goods vehicle or bus.
18 with proper training
4- Work a 12-hour shift down a coal mine.
20
5- Have sex.
12
6- Buy porn.
12
7- Appear in porn in an obvious state of physical arousal.
softcore-16
hardcore-18
8- Get married.
21
9- See front-line service in the army.
19
10- Own a 12-bore shotgun.
18
11- Vote.
16
12- Become President.
25
13- Have a credit card, personal loan or mortgage.
18
14- Adopt children.
21
15- Gamble.
18
16- Get executed.
18, and only for trason and terrorism
17- Buy a pet. Like a Pit Bull or a Python, or something.
18
Buy and consume alcohol
Buy alcohol-18
Consume alcohol-15 with parent's permission
buy and use tobacco and recreational drugs
18
Run for Congress
18 for House
21 for Senate
Get abortion
no age limit, so pregant teens are protected from fundy parents.
Last edited by Odin on 14-03-2005 at 23:56
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Jon Miller
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quote:
Originally posted by Immortal Wombat
Isn't it counterproductive for that to be anything other than the age of consent? |
not if you think that the parent has rights until you are of some other legal age
Jon Miller
(in the US the two are sometimes different)
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Kontiki
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Canada
Aug 2001
time: 00:35
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It'd be faster for me to highlight which ones I don't think should be 18.
Leave school - 18 generally, but really upon completion of secondary education (grade 12 here, whatever else is used elsewhere)
Drive a car - 16, with graduated licensing
Drive a heavy vehicle - 20 minimum, and at least 2 years with a full regular license
Have sex - 14 with peer, 18 with anyone
Become President - 30
Get executed - not a supporter of DP in general, but 16
Edit:
Drink - 18
Buy tobacco, etc. - 18
Second Edit: fixed typo
Last edited by Kontiki on 15-03-2005 at 00:07
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Immortal Wombat
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in perpetuity
Dec 2000
time: 05:35
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quote:
Originally posted by KrazyHorse
This has nothing to do with parental rights. The problem is that IW is not really seeing why we have age of consent laws for sex. In my mind they're not there to enforce parental control of children's behaviour, but to guard against sexual exploitation of the young and naive. |
I know what age of consent laws are for. Maybe I misphrased it. Is there a more elegant term for "the age at which you are legally permitted to have sex"?
If you allow abortions only for those over 16, but you allow 14 year olds to have sex, then you get 14/15 year olds bearing children they aren't ready to raise.
If you allow abortions to anyone above 14, but say that you can only have sex at 16, then your laws are inconsistant, and you'll get 14/15s having sex anyway because they know they can get abortions.
Having them set to the same age should reduce the occurance of either circumstance.
quote:
I would probably grant anybody over the age of 14 the right to a private abortion on demand. For those younger than 14, I would grant them the right to choose, but would also require that the parents be informed ahead of time to give them a chance to discuss it with their child. |
Yes, I would do the same, based on the fact that I have 14 as the age at which you are legally permitted to have sex.
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Kontiki
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Canada
Aug 2001
time: 00:35
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I don't understand those who put the age at which you can adopt higher than the age at which you can get married. Presumably, if your married, you can choose to have kids. If you can have kids on your own, why can't you adopt?
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Jon Miller
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The problem is that there are two tracks. One is for those whose parents baby them and support them. They are generally somewhat dependent on their parents until their mid 20s. The other 'track' is those whose parents don't support them at all. They often need to be working to support themselves before 18.
To cover both these tracks I would suggest that when your parents quit claiming you on taxes, than (for some) you can pick the [] age.
1- Leave full-time education.
22 [16]
2- Drive a car.
18 [16]
3- Drive a heavy goods vehicle or bus.
22 [16]
4- Work a 12-hour shift down a coal mine.
18 [16]
5- Have sex.
18 [16]
6- Buy porn.
16 [16]
7- Appear in porn in an obvious state of physical arousal.
22 [16]
8- Get married.
22 [16]
9- See front-line service in the army.
22 [16]
10- Own a 12-bore shotgun.
16 [16]
11- Vote.
22 [16]
12- Become President.
22 [22] - really young people will never be president because of the money involved
13- Have a credit card, personal loan or mortgage.
22 [16]
14- Adopt children.
22 [22]
15- Gamble.
18 [16]
16- Get executed.
22 [16]
17- Buy a pet. Like a Pit Bull or a Python, or something.
22 [16]
18 - buy alcohol
22 [16]
19 - buy cigs
22 [16]
20 - have an abortion
22 [16]
Basically if you are taking care of yourself, than you should have the right to things that those whose parents are taking care of shouldn't (their parents get to decide them).
Jon Miller
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David Floyd
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The bottom of a large bottle of beer
Jan 1970
time: 05:35
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quote:
1- Leave full-time education. |
That's between them and their parents.
18 on public roads, on private property, that's between them and the property owner.
quote:
3- Drive a heavy goods vehicle or bus. |
No age, simply when they can prove to their employer that they are responsible, with liability falling on both the employer and the individual (in different ways).
quote:
4- Work a 12-hour shift down a coal mine. |
No age, between children and their parents.
For peers, no age, that's between them and their parents. As for an actual "age of consent", I think it's hard to draw a line because it is different for everyone, however, 16 seems a valid starting point.
No age, this should be between children and their parents.
quote:
7- Appear in porn in an obvious state of physical arousal. |
The same as the age of consent, I would tend to say.
Again, age of consent is a good starting point.
quote:
9- See front-line service in the army. |
17
quote:
10- Own a 12-bore shotgun. |
No age limit.
Age of consent again seems reasonable.
quote:
12- Become President. |
I don't really think any age limit should apply - it's not as if a 15 year old would actually get elected.
quote:
13- Have a credit card, personal loan or mortgage. |
Probably age of consent, because we get into contract law with this one.
quote:
14- Adopt children. |
Whenever the parents of the potential adoptee wish to allow it.
No age limit.
If we have a death penalty, I'm not sure that there SHOULD be an age limit for executing someone who intentionally kills someone else.
quote:
17- Buy a pet. Like a Pit Bull or a Python, or something. |
Whenever the parents will allow it, given that when the child is below the age of consent, the parents are liable for harm or damage caused by the pet, and above that age, the individual is liable.
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Kontiki
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Canada
Aug 2001
time: 00:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Jon Miller
The problem is that there are two tracks. One is for those whose parents baby them and support them. They are generally somewhat dependent on their parents until their mid 20s. The other 'track' is those whose parents don't support them at all. They often need to be working to support themselves before 18.
To cover both these tracks I would suggest that when your parents quit claiming you on taxes, than (for some) you can pick the [] age.
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How the hell does that work? When you go to buy a six pack, is the clerk supposed to ask you if you've been babied by your parents?
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Jon Miller
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you get a check on your license saying that you are financially independent
this means that your parents can't call you a dependent and the like...
they alreay have to check your license for you to buy alcohol or cigs, why not have a thing saying whether you are financially independent or not?
Jon Miller
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David Floyd
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The bottom of a large bottle of beer
Jan 1970
time: 05:35
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Even better, why require an age limit for buying tobacco or alcohol at all? This way, stores can sell to whomever they please, and can refuse to sell to whomever they please.
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14-03-2005 23:02
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