16-03-2005 11:15									#181
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quote: Originally posted by Odin Make the experiment more interactive. Not just for her, but for the whole class, but it will especially help her. When I was in HS the labs were a pre-set experiemt and you knew what was going to happen because you had just heard about it in class. People with ADHD hate monotony and tedium. Let not just her, but every student or lab group design there own experiment about the topic you are covering (within the time, material, and saftey constraints of the class, of course; no making a nuclear reactor in Physics lab. ).

The thing is not all material can be taught hands on like in science lab.

I did a lot of hands on stuff when I taught history, but untimately traditional instruction had to be used.

	16-03-2005 11:16									#182
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Yes, that's what I figured - making it more interactive would be helpful and I know other students will enjoy it also.

The thing is that it's a writing course so it cannot be completely interactive all the time. Eventually they have to sit down and write something.

I'm not giving up yet and I recently had a good talk with her. I always tell my students do not hestiate to tell me what they want out of their classes. So I stressed this to her and she already is starting to suggest ideas.

I just want to understand better how a person with ADHD truly function, how he or she think and so on. This way I'd be better prepared for the next student who has it who happens to walk into my classroom.

	16-03-2005 11:19									#183
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious I am a student. I've been one most of my life. Sometimes the subject matter is hard and sometimes my teacher sucks, but I still learn it unless it's just too hard for me. That's what successfull students do. No teacher does it for me. I do myself.

yeah and teachers ought to be using different methods for those who aren't blessed like you to work through that with self-motivation.

	16-03-2005 11:20									#184
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quote: No one is saying that kids shouldn't learn calculus. For the kids who are capable of it the ones who don't learn it choose not to for themselves. All we can do is force them into the classroom, and that doesn't do any good.

I think that most people are capable of learning calculus. The essential problem is expectation. We dismiss students as being too dumb, so we don't teach reasonably challenging topics. We give them busywork instead. So students consider school boring, and themselves incapable of learning, so they end up not trying. And this process cointinues throughout their education.

I'll give you an example. There were two (single-variable) calculus classes in my high school, represented by two AP tests (the easier "AB" and the more difficult "BC"). The AB class was taught by a relatively inexperienced teacher who graded very generously, paced the class slowly, etc. The BC class was taught by a good teacher who graded harshly, paced the class quickly, etc. Nearly everyone in the AB class bombed their relatively easy AP test, while nearly everyone in the BC class got a 4 or 5 (the two highest grades) on their relatively difficult AP test. While the BC class was smarter than the AB class, they were not that much smarter (generally coming from the same previous classes).

My point is that kids need to be forced sometimes. That's why they're kids and not adults. They're naturally lazy and unmotivated. They need encouragement and challenge from their teachers. They need to be kicked in the ass and driven.

	16-03-2005 11:20									#185
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Barinthus,

I take it you are a first year teacher. Are you in a mentoring program? You really need help from other teachers. Don't be shy. Ask for help.

	16-03-2005 11:22									#186
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious I did a lot of hands on stuff when I taught history, but untimately traditional instruction had to be used.

Just curious, but did you have a Way-Back machine?



In other words, how did you do that exactly?

ACK!

	16-03-2005 11:29									#187
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Kid you are an adult. the subject matter being disussed here was children from grade k thru 12 How can they do what an adult can do? No kid really wants to study and for some it really is hard. Why seperate the kids. If the smart kids wanna do honors class then so be it, if some smart kids wanna be side by side with ordinary kids why change that?

	16-03-2005 11:31									#188
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo quote: No one is saying that kids shouldn't learn calculus. For the kids who are capable of it the ones who don't learn it choose not to for themselves. All we can do is force them into the classroom, and that doesn't do any good. I think that most people are capable of learning calculus.

No. Most people are not capable of learning calculus.

quote: The essential problem is expectation. We dismiss students as being too dumb, so we don't teach reasonably challenging topics.

If you expect them to learn more than they are capable of you will kill their motivation, not just for that class but for education in general. Students need to be challenged, but they also need to succeed.

quote: I'll give you an example. There were two (single-variable) calculus classes in my high school, represented by two AP tests (the easier "AB" and the more difficult "BC"). The AB class was taught by a relatively inexperienced teacher who graded very generously, paced the class slowly, etc. The BC class was taught by a good teacher who graded harshly, paced the class quickly, etc. Nearly everyone in the AB class bombed their relatively easy AP test, while nearly everyone in the BC class got a 4 or 5 (the two highest grades) on their relatively difficult AP test. While the BC class was smarter than the AB class, they were not that much smarter (generally coming from the same previous classes).

Sure good experienced teachers make a difference, but ultimately it has to be the students who do the work. I would be willing to bet that the experienced teacher would not have the same success with the less capable students.

quote: My point is that kids need to be forced sometimes. That's why they're kids and not adults. They're naturally lazy and unmotivated. They need encouragement and challenge from their teachers. They need to be kicked in the ass and driven.

But you can't kick them in the ass. That's against the law.

	16-03-2005 11:34									#189
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Barinthus, I take it you are a first year teacher. Are you in a mentoring program? You really need help from other teachers. Don't be shy. Ask for help.

Already am

	16-03-2005 11:34									#190
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I love you KID, I ain't readin' what you are sayin' right now, but I love ya still

though I am sure it is wrong.

	16-03-2005 11:34									#191
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quote: Originally posted by Tuberski Just curious, but did you have a Way-Back machine? In other words, how did you do that exactly? ACK!

You assign roles and you have them play out historical events, not exactly how they were played out in history but simulations. Then you compare the way the simulation was played out to the actual historical event. It can be a lot of fun and teach well if the students get into it and prepare.

	16-03-2005 11:37									#192
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Busywork:

Education should not be about repeating an endless supply of facts, but about discovery. Nothing kills a kid's enthusiasm for learning than tedium, especially for ones with ADHD.

	16-03-2005 11:38									#193
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quote: Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski Kid you are an adult. the subject matter being disussed here was children from grade k thru 12 How can they do what an adult can do? No kid really wants to study and for some it really is hard. Why seperate the kids. If the smart kids wanna do honors class then so be it, if some smart kids wanna be side by side with ordinary kids why change that?

The point is that my professor can't make me learn Intermediate Accounting any more than a high school teacher can make a kid learn Algebra. The teacher needs to motivate the students, but that's not always possible. The solution isn't better teachers or better methods. That's just not going to cut it. The solution is students putting in more effort.

	16-03-2005 11:42									#194
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quote: Originally posted by Odin Busywork: Education should not be about repeating an endless supply of facts, but about discovery. Nothing kills a kid's enthusiasm for learning than tedium, especially for ones with ADHD.

That's true, but some facts are important. You don't want your high school graduates thinking that the civilians or the French won the American Civil War.

	16-03-2005 11:48									#195
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious That's true, but some facts are important. You don't want your high school graduates thinking that the civilians or the French won the American Civil War.

I am not saying facts are not important, but "what" and "when" needs to be mixed in with "why" and "how" for kids to get a good understanding.

	16-03-2005 11:48									#196
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quote: Originally posted by Japher I love you KID, I ain't readin' what you are sayin' right now, but I love ya still though I am sure it is wrong.

I know.

	16-03-2005 11:48									#197
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still unemployed but i got a few interviews this week, and hopefully ill get some callbacks. all of it is grocery store, retail, warehouse grunt level ****

	16-03-2005 11:49									#198
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quote: Originally posted by Odin I am not saying facts are not important, but "what" and "when" needs to be mixed in with "why" and "how" for kids to get a good understanding.

One of the problems is though that the "why" can sometimes be very politicized, and high schools don't want to get into that.

	16-03-2005 11:50									#199
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quote: Originally posted by Odin I am not saying facts are not important, but "what" and "when" needs to be mixed in with "why" and "how" for kids to get a good understanding.

Even if you look at educational standards, either state or national, you see that concepts are emphasized. You can't get away with not teaching them.

	16-03-2005 11:51									#200
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui One of the problems is though that the "why" can sometimes be very politicized, and high schools don't want to get into that.

OR ELSE THE LAWYERS COME

	16-03-2005 11:52									#201
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui One of the problems is though that the "why" can sometimes be very politicized, and high schools don't want to get into that.

That is a problem, because if you take out the political nature of history you make it boring.

	16-03-2005 11:52									#202
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No, rather the parents come. Have you ever seen a school being sued for teaching the "why" behind, say, an American history event?

	16-03-2005 11:53									#203
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious That is a problem, because if you take out the political nature of history you make it boring.

Whose politics win? Conservative parents will be mad when liberal teachers teach politics in history and liberal parents will be mad when conservative teachers teach politics in history. High schools (and lower) realize they can't win. The parents will create major fusses.

	16-03-2005 11:54									#204
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quote: Originally posted by MRT144 still unemployed but i got a few interviews this week, and hopefully ill get some callbacks. all of it is grocery store, retail, warehouse grunt level ****

Good. Look around off the beaten path. Maybe you can find something that you like, and that you can maybe make a career of.

	16-03-2005 11:55									#205
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Kid i understand what you are saying most of the kids today are motivated. F*** I cant even do calculus. I barely got out of algebra. But thats not the point here is it I have three kids in school and I have reservations about some of their teaching methods. I havent said anything because they dont tell me how to be a nurse.

	16-03-2005 12:01									#206
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Whose politics win? Conservative parents will be mad when liberal teachers teach politics in history and liberal parents will be mad when conservative teachers teach politics in history. High schools (and lower) realize they can't win. The parents will create major fusses.

A high school social science teacher doesn't want the students to know his or her point of view, because then the students will be afraid to speak up in opposition to that view. You present multiple views on issues and try to get the students to form an opinion, any opinion. It's very hard. They are adverse to forming political opinions, but you can to some extent.

	16-03-2005 12:04									#207
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious A high school social science teacher doesn't want the students to know his or her point of view, because then the students be afraid to speak up in opposition to that view. You present multiple views on issues and try to get the students to form an opinion, any opinion. It's very hard. They are adverse to forming political opinions, but you can to some extent.

You've pointed out the stumbling block. Most teachers don't want to do something that hard. It is a VERY thin line in presenting both sides that you don't reveal your own viewpoint. I think it'd be fairly difficult. In later high school years, I think you can talk politics and the kids won't care about your political views, if you are fair to theirs. But in earlier years, it can get thorny as kids ask their parents if x, y, and z are true.

	16-03-2005 12:05									#208
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quote: Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski Kid i understand what you are saying most of the kids today are motivated. F*** I cant even do calculus. I barely got out of algebra. But thats not the point here is it I have three kids in school and I have reservations about some of their teaching methods. I havent said anything because they dont tell me how to be a nurse.

What kind of methods? What classes?

	16-03-2005 12:09									#209
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui You've pointed out the stumbling block. Most teachers don't want to do something that hard. It is a VERY thin line in presenting both sides that you don't reveal your own viewpoint. I think it'd be fairly difficult. In later high school years, I think you can talk politics and the kids won't care about your political views, if you are fair to theirs. But in earlier years, it can get thorny as kids ask their parents if x, y, and z are true.

Which is why, unfortunately, history in elementary school is mostly over-simplistic crap and/or nationalistc indoctrination.

	16-03-2005 12:11									#210
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui You've pointed out the stumbling block. Most teachers don't want to do something that hard. It is a VERY thin line in presenting both sides that you don't reveal your own viewpoint. I think it'd be fairly difficult. In later high school years, I think you can talk politics and the kids won't care about your political views, if you are fair to theirs. But in earlier years, it can get thorny as kids ask their parents if x, y, and z are true.

You would think so, but you will get so much trouble for the grades you give that any trouble you get for presenting political issues will just be refreshing.