16-03-2005 10:17									#151
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Casteism is a form of racism , and accusing someone of being casteist is like calling them racist . Also , saying that an Indian supports casetism is funny means that you are generalising about Indians . I know , however , that it was a joke , so I added that "technically" bit there .

Get back on topic , people !

	16-03-2005 10:28									#152
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im on the deep fryer track

	16-03-2005 10:31									#153
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deep fryer

	16-03-2005 10:34									#154
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quote: Originally posted by Odin Your kid with ADHD shows another flaw in our education system, it makes the assumption that all kids learn in a similar way, which I, as a person with ADHD, can tell you, is utter crap. People with ADHD tend to be somewhat smarter than average, but because our schools emphasize conformity, a smart kid with ADHD, like I was, sucks in school because it is too monotonous ( I am opposed to medicating people with ADHD with drugs like Ritalin, which are way overprescribed). Your kid has the potential to be a good student, but the educational reforms needed will never happen unless we give our schools enough money to pay for programs for people with ADHD and Asperger's that are smart; not just relagating them to "Special Education", which in my experience is just a nice, politically correct way of saying "the place for retards."

Hey there. As a person who have ADHD what are your suggestions for a high school teacher who have an ADHD kid in his class? I have one student whose mind is so brilliant it's beautiful yet she's failing the course. If there is a way to modify the environment in the classroom in a way she'd benefit, I'm more than glad to entertain it. I'd ask our behavior specialist but she's an incomptent.

	16-03-2005 10:35									#155
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How is stuff going anyway MRT144? Are you working?

	16-03-2005 10:35									#156
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To some extent, there ought to be ability-based segregation in schools. But there is a tendency in school systems to substitute segregation for addressing the underlying problems in the system. The basic problem is that the "bad kids" end up being saddled with an endless cycle of incompetent teachers and tedious, mindless curricula. It's remarkable how much more students learn with a little decent teaching and an expectation that students aren't total dumbasses.

	16-03-2005 10:38									#157
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quote: Originally posted by Sava It's the teacher's job to motivate the students.

Beep - very wrong.

Students have to be able to motivate themselves. Of course teachers should strive to make the material more exciting and whatever. However in reality it's not always this way. So they have to learn how to acquire the discipline to motivate themselves.

Otherwise they're just asking for one big bloody nose once they leave the sheltered environment of their schools.

	16-03-2005 10:40									#158
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quote: Originally posted by aneeshm Uh , had the classes been segregated , the smart geek would have been with other smart geeks , thus almost no chance of him getting his *** kicked .

I guess they didnt have lunch at your school. Not to mention after school but I forget most dumb kids according to most of you posting now were to stupid to realize the bell rang

	16-03-2005 10:43									#159
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I see my opinions aren't the favorite of the establishment.

IMO, that's the problem. Established methods of education are pathetic. School is boring. It's the teacher's fault. They just can't teach then if 40-50% of the kids are failing. But not totally the teacher's fault. As I said before, about half of the problem is the curriculum... 40% is teacher's fault, and 10% is the student's fault.

	16-03-2005 10:43									#160
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quote: Originally posted by Barinthus Hey there. As a person who have ADHD what are your suggestions for a high school teacher who have an ADHD kid in his class? I have one student whose mind is so brilliant it's beautiful yet she's failing the course. If there is a way to modify the environment in the classroom in a way she'd benefit, I'm more than glad to entertain it. I'd ask our behavior specialist but she's an incomptent.

If she is a special education student there is a file on her. You should become acquainted with it so that you know what her limitations are. It may be that she has a hard time learning from oral instruction, and she may need extra time on tests, or she may have other needs. If her specialist isn't helpfull find someone else who is. Contact the distict or a college near you where there are people who know about this type of student.

edit: also try talking to her parents.

	16-03-2005 10:43									#161
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious We need to drop all this nonsense about every kid going to college. It's never going to happen. The purpose of schools can't be to give every kid a great education. It should be to educate as much kids as possible and to provide an environment for those kids who are motivated to learn as much as possible. That means seperating the students who are motivated from those who are not.

Exactly. However I agree for a different reason. Not everybody are college material and not everybody want to go to college. Some people are more interested in working with their hands or what not.

Nothing wrong with that. In fact people in vocational occupations often earn way more money than most college-trained people.

So if a student is not 'traditional classroom' material, perhaps we ought ask that student what he truly want to do. If he expresses an interest in auto body shop or culinary arts or whatever, we definitely should encourage him to explore those options further and perhaps by the time he graduate from high school he will be already a journeyman.

That's what is wrong with the educational system in California, it's all about teaching kids to go to college. It's different in Maine where I grew up. At my school, kids could choose to take few basic courses then spend the rest of their school hours at a nearby vocational school acquring skills in areas of their interest.

About 20% of high school kids in California actually make it into college yet good % of those do not finish college. So that's heck a lot of kids whose time was wasted in high school. It's a shame.

	16-03-2005 10:46									#162
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Good point Ozzy, but if teenagers are surrounded by students who don't take education seriously then they have a tendency to also not take education seriously.

Very true, unfortunately.

	16-03-2005 10:47									#163
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Unless kids grow up in the right environment, they're not going to know that they wouldn't have any interest in higher education without being introduced to these topics in school.

	16-03-2005 10:49									#164
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Ramo, correct. I was fortunate to grow in a such environment. That's part of the problem, we as a society do not do enough to encourage this mentality.

	16-03-2005 10:52									#165
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I wonder why all kids have to be lumped together. The kids that have to work harder sont always want to be clowns. They act this way to try and hide they are not as smart as the other kids. Why take education away from them?

	16-03-2005 10:54									#166
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Barinthus, that's why letting kids learn how to cook instead of learning calculus is a bad idea.

	16-03-2005 10:54									#167
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quote: Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski I wonder why all kids have to be lumped together. The kids that have to work harder sont always want to be clowns. They act this way to try and hide they are not as smart as the other kids. Why take education away from them?

Because teachers that are failing don't want to teach kids that don't learn from their methods.

	16-03-2005 10:54									#168
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I'm one of the undesirsbles that have been mentioned, I didn't graduate HS on time.

Why did I fail? I was taught the same thing year after year.

I took Algebra 1 twice. The first time was with a teacher that order the class by gradeStarting on the upper left of the classroom with the best grade and down the row in grade order.

I never got out of the last couple of seats of the last row.

I took it again 2 years later with a teacher sat on one of the student desks at the front of the class. Everyone else sat where they want to sit.

I had straight A's in that class.

Take you segregation and put it in a private school. Public schools need more teachers like my second, some that will get down with the students and teach.

Teaching is a rare commodity these days.

ACK!

	16-03-2005 10:56									#169
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo Unless kids grow up in the right environment, they're not going to know that they wouldn't have any interest in higher education without being introduced to these topics in school.

That's the crux. Unfortunately for most of us just doing as well as the people we associate with is good enough. It's so hard just to convince just one kid to do better.

	16-03-2005 11:00									#170
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo Barinthus, that's why letting kids learn how to cook instead of learning calculus is a bad idea.

No one is saying that kids shouldn't learn calculus. For the kids who are capable of it the ones who don't learn it choose not to for themselves. All we can do is force them into the classroom, and that doesn't do any good.

	16-03-2005 11:00									#171
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quote: Originally posted by Sava Because teachers that are failing don't want to teach kids that don't learn from their methods.

then shouldnt the problem be handled at the college level? If the colleges are not teaching the people how to teach then who is?

	16-03-2005 11:02									#172
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quote: Originally posted by Sava Because teachers that are failing don't want to teach kids that don't learn from their methods.

Why do you say teachers use the wrong methods? Do you think they are lazy or something? It's easy to criticize until you walk a mile in someone's shoes.

	16-03-2005 11:05									#173
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Why do you say teachers use the wrong methods? Do you think they are lazy or something? It's easy to criticize until you walk a mile in someone's shoes.

Because, if they were using the right methods they wouldn't be failing.



ACK!

	16-03-2005 11:05									#174
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quote: Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski then shouldnt the problem be handled at the college level? If the colleges are not teaching the people how to teach then who is?

Teachers are taught method up the wazoo. Sometimes those methods work and sometimes they don't. Like all education it only goes so far. You have to get out in the field to see what works.

	16-03-2005 11:07									#175
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quote: Originally posted by Tuberski Because, if they were using the right methods they wouldn't be failing. ACK!

It doesn't work like that.

	16-03-2005 11:07									#176
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Why do you say teachers use the wrong methods?

because of your own account, 40-50% of students aren't learning, duh

quote: Do you think they are lazy or something?

do you think students who get bad grades are lazy?

quote: It's easy to criticize until you walk a mile in someone's shoes.

exactly, try walking a mile in a student's shoes... only you are completely uninterested in performing at school... try working through that. It would be a hell of a lot easier if teachers motivated students to succeed. Success breeds success. When students learn how to succeed then you can take the training wheels off and let them succeed in regular classes, and they will succeed in life.

	16-03-2005 11:09									#177
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quote: Originally posted by Tuberski Because, if they were using the right methods they wouldn't be failing. ACK!

Or it's because students do not want to learn?

It could be easily either way. Yes, some teachers should not be teaching at all.

Yet I can tell you honestly that there are students who simply don't want to learn. There could be many different reasons for that but is it the teacher's fault. Not neccessarily.

	16-03-2005 11:10									#178
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quote: Originally posted by Barinthus Hey there. As a person who have ADHD what are your suggestions for a high school teacher who have an ADHD kid in his class? I have one student whose mind is so brilliant it's beautiful yet she's failing the course. If there is a way to modify the environment in the classroom in a way she'd benefit, I'm more than glad to entertain it. I'd ask our behavior specialist but she's an incomptent.

Make the experiment more interactive. Not just for her, but for the whole class, but it will especially help her. When I was in HS the labs were a pre-set experiemt and you knew what was going to happen because you had just heard about it in class. People with ADHD hate monotony and tedium. Let not just her, but every student or lab group design there own experiment about the topic you are covering (within the time, material, and saftey constraints of the class, of course; no making a nuclear reactor in Physics lab. ).

	16-03-2005 11:10									#179
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quote: nuclear reactor in Physics lab

	16-03-2005 11:11									#180
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quote: Originally posted by Sava because of your own account, 40-50% of students aren't learning, duh

Again. You can not make someone learn who is either incapable or unwilling.

quote: do you think students who get bad grades are lazy?

Usually that is the case.

quote: exactly, try walking a mile in a student's shoes... only you are completely uninterested in performing at school... try working through that. It would be a hell of a lot easier if teachers motivated students to succeed. Success breeds success. When students learn how to succeed then you can take the training wheels off and let them succeed in regular classes, and they will succeed in life.

I am a student. I've been one most of my life. Sometimes the subject matter is hard and sometimes my teacher sucks, but I still learn it unless it's just too hard for me. That's what successfull students do. No teacher does it for me. I do myself.