18-03-2005 17:27									#1
	Bloody Oath Horde correspondance thread Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Well, I have my job full. I will send an E-mail with our greeting soon. Should I tell them our research path? I see no reson not to.

Dear Ambassador,

We're pleased with our first contact with the Babylonian people and would like to establish good relations and close cooperation in future. Though you have no techs to offer us at the moment, we would be happy to arrange future tech exchanges. For that purpose we would like to ask you about your current research project and we will reciprocate by telling you about our current research project.

May Inanna bless our relations and may they grow under her benevolent guardianship.


Regards
Ljube
Horde Ambassador

	18-03-2005 19:32									#2
	Support Apolyton

Sounds like a good plan.

	18-03-2005 22:47									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

And they already have Myst? Did they get a hut pop or something?

	18-03-2005 23:42									#4
	Tired of ads?

Greetings, I am Gamecube64, the assigned ambassador to your fine
nation from Babylon. We wish no ill will to come between us, as we are
a peaceful culture with great interests in art and science, but be
warned. If you cross us we will not hesitate to attack. Our goddess
Inanna may be of love, but she is also of war.

We have just discovered the secrets of mysticism, and are now thinking
of how to get a polytheism to work. Now, what are you working on?

Gamecube64,
Babylonian Ambassador

--------------------------------------------

We are on iron working.
Well, even though we see little room for future tech trade at the moment, we believe that this open exchange of scientific goals and ideas will build the trust between our two civilisations. If we cannot cooperate in the scientific field directly, surely we can be loyal friends in war and trading partners in peace.

We would like to use this opportunity to convey our concern regarding the aggressive actions committed by your northeastern neighbour and by the threat the military build-up of your western neighbour poses to both our nations. We hope that checking these two threats will be a top priority in our future plans.

Long live Beta, the glorious leader of the Babylonians and long live his wise Ambassador Gamecube64!

Last edited by Gamecube64 on 19-03-2005 at 02:45

	19-03-2005 23:04									#5
	Got spare money?

More news

Dear neighbours,

We are happy to propose the following trade to your glorious nation: Our
wheel for your alphabet.

Please reply to this email as soon as possible. If you accept the trade we
will offer wheel and you can respond with your alphabet next turn and accept
the trade and we will accept the trade the next turn after that.

Best Regards
Ljube
Horde Ambassador

	19-03-2005 23:09									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I guess we should tell them we already have a deal for Wheel

	20-03-2005 04:56									#7
	Put an end to popups!

Done.

They get IW in two turns.

	21-03-2005 05:07									#8
	Inflate your Upload Space

It does make you wonder how they got Mysticism. Maybe a hut.

	24-03-2005 07:57									#9
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Ljube has offered to sell us the wheel at half-price, though I told him a deal would be unlikely. Thoughts? They have also threatened to attack Morpork for trespassing.

Last edited by Gamecube64 on 24-03-2005 at 08:09

	25-03-2005 02:36									#10
	Tired of ads?

Trespassing? Interesting...

I think we have to stick to our word and complete the deal with Morpork.

	08-04-2005 06:42									#11
	Tired of ads?

PLATO says:
The warriors from Ank-Morpork had followed one of our settlers several turns and had appeared to be agressive before hand. Given that War Chariots are their UU, we felt it would be prudent to make sure we were not going to be attacked. Happily, we believe that relations may be improving.

Horde on relations with Morpork

	13-04-2005 02:12									#12
	Get a bigger avatar today!

PLATO wants to knonw if we want to trade anything for iron working, we have iron in our mountains somewhere according to them.

	16-04-2005 10:33									#13
	Remove this text

I have just finished a long chat with Paddy and Plato, as organized by GC64.

I took some liberties - I hope that is OK. I got caught up in where things are at prior to the chat.

To start with - I reached a deal for IW, 130 gold. But I alos sold Polytheism for 200 gold and structured the deal like this.

We trade 30 gold for IW now. In four turns, we provide Polytheism to the Horde and they send us 100 gold (the difference) payable over 20 turns as 5gpt. They also agree not to trade Poly.

In effect - IW and 70 gold for Polythiesm.

I could have dug my heals in, but I think doing the trade was important. And the no-trade clause still allows us to deal for techs and/or gold from the other civs.

The discussion then turned to friendship and alliances. We gingerly discussed our relations with the other civs in the game. The Horde sees Dr and their immortals as he biggest threat. So, we have forged a defensive alliance of sorts. We will talk to the Lost Boys to offer them suuport if they are attacked by DR, and the Horde will do the same with the Abba crew. This forges a loose 4 team alliance, which is what I wanted to make sure we did not end up on the weak side of a 3 team vs 3 team situation, or worse yet, 4 on 2.

We discussed Ankh-M, and we simply continue to be friendly and co-operative neighbours. We can see where we go with Ankh-Morpork down the road.

Paddy and crew seemed genuinely pleased with our new friendship - or I have simply been duped. But I don't think that is the case. I was somehwat hesitant to pick the Horde to be friends with - but there are some advantages. They are close enough to help us if we need it - but so close as to exert geographic expansion pressure. They are strong militarily - so glad they are on our side. They were the first team to seriously approach us. And I know Paddy to pretty honourable from the ptwdg2 game.

So - I hope folks are Ok with this - and we should discuss next steps, But it is late and I am tired.

Good night.

(ps transcripts of the chat are coming from Blood Oath Horde)

	16-04-2005 20:44									#14
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Hey, over 1/2 the beaker value is a very good deal IMO.

Though, I'm still thinking in terms of NTA economics. Without a NTA, techs can be more valuable.

I'm okay with a defensive alliance. We can see if we want to go further from here. I see no problem with the Horde at the moment; they're on the other side of the playing diamond from us, so any conflict of interest would come much later in the game. Only thing to consider is whether a closer alliance would be helping them to one day triumph over us as well.

	17-04-2005 07:12									#15
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Here's the full transcript of the chat - if you are interested. (is there a better way of posting this - maybe as an attachment you can open???)

Paddy says:

Ok, so this will be an official chat, that we will record for the Horde Council to read, is that fine with you Beta

Beta says:

Fine by me.

Beta says:

Send me a copy as well please.

Paddy says:

indeed

Paddy says:

Have you been well

Beta says:

Yes thanks. But bloody busy.

Paddy says:

indeed

Paddy says:

first, thank you for taking this time to meet with us of the Horde

Paddy says:

as we are all busy and have much to discuss we may need to have a few meetings over the coming period

Beta says:

No problem. What's up?

Paddy says:

firstly we have offered your people some reseach in Iron Working

Paddy says:

this has not been accepted at this stage by your people, is there any thing we can be doing

Paddy says:

basically I would like to discuss the following

1.) Iron deal

2.) Their warrior blocking path south of A-M

3.) Relations with A-P, specific info on IW trade not accepted. Reason for trade not accepted

4.) Contact channel to LB

5.) Confidentiality of our military movements

6.) Their relations with DR

I see that they all merge in many ways

Beta says:

Hang on for 30 seconds. I have some catching up to do.

Paddy says:

indeed

Paddy says:



Beta says:

(Beta starts scribbling his own agenda to look as organized...)

Paddy says:

hehe

Beta says:

Ok - back.

Paddy says:

The Iron deal was rejected, why?

Beta says:

To start with - we have been really quiet on the diplomatic front. This is more a function of folks not being around than anything else.

Beta says:

Regarding iron - was something previoulsy discyussed.

Paddy says:

Your Ambassador - Cube, said your team rejected the offer

Beta says:

Did he say why??

Beta says:

Sorry - but I have not been around for a bit.

Paddy says:

He indicated that another offer had been rejected, but not why

we had hoped that you would want to deal with us

Paddy says:

ahhh

Paddy says:

Well our people were very happy to meet yours

Paddy says:

did you know of the other offer

Beta says:

jdf - ooops - sorry - Simon the cat woke up.

Paddy says:

hehe

Beta says:

He likes the monitor and the key board.

Paddy says:

indeed

Paddy says:

some things never change matey

Beta says:

Well - we do not have IW - and from what I can tell - no deal to obtain it.

Paddy says:

so what deal would you like to put forward

Beta says:

But - we also have no tech to trade you right now.

Beta says:

We have poly in 4.

Paddy says:

tech is only one component of a trade in a world like this

Paddy says:

I would be interested in gold

Beta says:

Understood. And poly is worth a bit.

Paddy says:

yes Poly is indeed worth a bit

Beta says:

How about IW and gold (from BOH) for Poly? Does that work for you.

Paddy says:

well it could one day, but what for Iron now

Beta says:

How much gold would you see as reasonable? And what else is there to put on the table - ie your other agenda items.

Paddy says:

I would be willing to accept 135 gold straight up

the official sale price that we have on this technology is 155 gold



yet so to it is of benefit to have a good relationship with you

Beta says:

And is the concern with OUR warrior blocking yours??

Paddy says:

that warrior and ours seem to be stoppoing the other from getting past etc is all

Paddy says:

he be a conscript scout

Paddy says:

regarding the iron tech, that would be a straight up trade

Paddy says:

there is surely other things we could do to lower that a tad, in case you do not have that much surplus available

Beta says:

Well - let's say 130 for IW.

Beta says:

But...

Beta says:

We agree to a deal for Poly as well.

Beta says:

We will also agree to a very resonable price for Polytheism. 200 gold. Which on a tech credit basis makes it cheaper than IW, and most other teams already have IW.

Paddy says:

One moment please, Plato, could you please check our scientific scrolls for this

Paddy says:

i understand Beta

Beta says:

We do not have 130 gold to send now. But I will send 30, and we owe you 100. When we deliver Poly - you send us 100 gold and we are all square.

PLATO says:

Indeed great Khan. A moment please.

Beta says:

And we ask that you not trade Polytheism.

Paddy says:

your numbers do look interesting

PLATO says:

Great Khan, i have transmitted the requested information by scroll messenger.

Paddy says:

ahhh

Beta says:

Another way to look at it. We are paying you 21.7 gold for each of the 6 tech credits of IW, but only asking for 16.7 gold for each tech credit of Poly. And as indicated... IW has made the rounds. I believe Poly is pretty 'fresh'.

Beta says:

(we Babylonians like math.)

Paddy says:

hahaha

Beta says:

I was also musing gentlemen ...

Paddy says:

well then, what if we were to reach Polytheism before you?

Beta says:

Hmmm...

Paddy says:

indeed

Beta says:

That is why we lock the deal in now.

Paddy says:

Then a lot of Horde research could be wasted

Beta says:

Then you do not need to spend time, or gold, on trying to obtain it elsewhere.

Beta says:

If that is what you are researching.

Paddy says:

well can we look at the deal from two angles at the moment



1. a trade of Iron tech for gold and something



2. a trade of Iron tech along the lines you have stated



Beta says:

What I was musing about is that the early civ contact and the extent of the trading, we should progress very quickly as civilizations.

Paddy says:

yes indeed

Beta says:

What is the 'and something' under #1?

Paddy says:

possible agreements between our nations on certain state affairs

Beta says:

Ah - understood.

Beta says:

Of what nature?

Paddy says:

We have much to benefit from each other

Paddy says:

and it will be a good thing for our nations to work together.

Beta says:

yes and yes.

Paddy says:

Your Ambassador has assured us that your team will report all movement of units to all teams

we prefer to keep such information in house

Beta says:

OK.

Beta says:

Anything more concrete?

Paddy says:

may we come back to the iron in a few minutes

Paddy says:

some maths needs to be looked at

Beta says:

Certainly.

Paddy says:

on other things

Paddy says:

do you know of your contacts with the Lost Boys, your neighbours to your east

Beta says:

one sec

Paddy says:

has your nation a solid set of communications with the Lost Boys, or are they truely lost?

Beta says:

We have communication with the lost boys. Do you not?

Paddy says:

yes we do

Beta says:

And are you getting along OK with them?

Paddy says:

Beta, they seem to be in a state of dissaray

Paddy says:

a tad confused shall we say

Paddy says:

how have you found them?

Beta says:

We walked by and said hello. No one got their blood sucked, so we think they are friendly.

Paddy says:

ok, so you do not have diplomatic relations at this time then

Beta says:

Yes - we do.

Paddy says:

right

Beta says:

Do you?

Paddy says:

are they confusing to your people as well

Paddy says:

yes we do, and find them confused

Beta says:

Hey - they are vampires.What do you expect?

Paddy says:

not sure who is doing what and when etc

Paddy says:

well said

Beta says:

We haven't dealt with them in awhile.

Paddy says:

ok.

Beta says:

I think 1889 is the main driver - and he may be busy.

Paddy says:

thank you

Beta says:

But we did a tech deal earlier on.

Paddy says:

Regarding our two warriors on the land bridge to the west of A-M

can we work something out to let each other past

Beta says:

I'm sure that can be arranged. I don't think there was anything Machiavellian behind our move - just a matter of lack of communication.

Beta says:

I'm looking at the 1590 save.

Paddy says:

indeed, thus another of the reasons the Ambassadors organised this time for us.

Paddy says:

excellent

Beta says:

Um - 2590.

Paddy says:

hehe

Beta says:

Yes - agreed. Long overdue.

Paddy says:

1590 would be a great bonus to see now

Beta says:

hehe

Beta says:

To be clear - we are talking about our Babylonian warrior to ethe SW of Ankh territory

Paddy says:

yes indeed

Beta says:

And speaking of Ankh - how are you getting along with them?

Paddy says:

you see a conscript warrior of the Horde there

Paddy says:

we are talking with them at times

Paddy says:

our scouts have seen their border

Beta says:

Ok - thanks. I can see from the 2550bc screenshots that Kloreep has posted that our warrior has indded moved.

Beta says:

See how quickly I can make things happen!

Paddy says:

oh, excellent, so our lad can continue his walking

Paddy says:

hehe

Paddy says:

You are indeed Supreme



Beta says:

Yup - walkabout to your heart's content.

Paddy says:

thank you

Beta says:

You will find us to his SE.

Paddy says:

excellent

Paddy says:

and how are your relations with A-M?

Beta says:

He will probably see Felinicity first. The City of Cats.

Paddy says:

haha

Beta says:

I trust he is not allergic???

Paddy says:

to pected, Felicity

Paddy says:

Becks Beer Boys are quite the Cat lovers

Beta says:



Beta says:

Back to A-M.. we have been in contact with them for awhile now.

Paddy says:

ok

Beta says:

We have also done some trading.

Paddy says:

that is a good sign of friendship

Beta says:

To be honest - it was more a matter of meeting them first.

Beta says:

But we do get along well with them.

Beta says:

We get along well with most folks from what I can see.

Beta says:

How about you and the Abba crowd. You rae failry close to each other?

Paddy says:

that is to be expected, and hoped for in these early times

Paddy says:

The Bards seem to be an honest and happy folk

Paddy says:

they play strange instruments... maybe you should not discuss that around your cats

Paddy says:

but staunch sort of folk

Paddy says:

have you had the chance to discuss life and babel fish with them yet?

Beta says:

No - we have not yet had that pleasure.

Paddy says:

I am sure you will have some fun in the near future

Paddy says:

then we come to the Desolation Row...

Beta says:

ah - yes. I take it they are far to the east.

Paddy says:

that they surely are

Beta says:

And would seem to have some expansion room.

Paddy says:

have you not sighted them at this stage

Beta says:

We have met them - but not seen their border as of yet.

Paddy says:

they are well centered on this world

Paddy says:

indeed

Beta says:

Have you had problems with them?

Paddy says:

none what so ever

Paddy says:

they are exploring as you are, as we are

Paddy says:

thus meet and greet

Paddy says:

I do expect that someone will be meeting an avalanche of Immortals from within the DR borders

Paddy says:

Their leader Aqua, and many of their Row are aggressive types

Beta says:

That would be the Lost Boys or Bjorn.

Paddy says:

well that indeed would make sense

Beta says:

Opportunities perhaps?

Paddy says:

and if successful would give them a great deal of control

Paddy says:

yes there possibly are opportunities

Paddy says:

what do you suggest

Beta says:

And make them a target for an alliance.

Paddy says:

such an alliance is a true sign of friendship

Beta says:

You know - this world reminds me of some old stories which are told around Babylon..

Paddy says:

is that so, I would like to read some of those at some stage

Beta says:

They talk of this game (if you can believe it) called survivor...

Paddy says:

really

Beta says:

Where people start out on an island - and they make alliances and deals, and 'vote' each other off the island.

Paddy says:

haha

Paddy says:

you are a comic at heart my friend

Beta says:

Perhaps. But I am also being fairly serious here.

Paddy says:

yes indeed

Beta says:

The winners in that game, tend to either be folks who can keep their heads down ....

Beta says:

(which may not be possible in this world)

Beta says:

..Or... those who can forge the strongest alliances early.



Paddy has left the conversation.



PLATO says:

Lord Beta, The Khan has experienced a technical glitch and will return very shortly. We apologize for this error

Beta says:

Understood. Sorry - I think I had you blocked Plat.

Beta says:

Plato



Paddy has been added to the conversation.



Rob has been added to the conversation.



Beta says:

hello hello hello

Paddy says:

hello

Rob says:

hi

Beta says:

who is rob?

Paddy says:

Auditor General of the Horde

PLATO says:

Lord Beta. Please excuse my incompetence. Please allow us to open a new chat without the technical difficulties

Beta says:

ah - WE are honoured indeed.

Rob says:

alternately....the bean counter...

Beta says:

And you are in fact a true horde.

Paddy says:

Yes we be a true Horde

Paddy says:

so where were we Beta

Rob says:

bloody too...we make new recruits sacrifice their horse milk or the head of their first kill....

Beta says:

Alliances and the benefits of same.

Paddy says:

yes indeed

Paddy says:

in the spirit of alliance then let us look to this tech deal and the many benefits that will help both of our peoples

Beta says:

The gentle babylonian shakes his head, wondering if the cultural abyss can be bridged...

Beta says:



Paddy says:

yes indeed it can good sir, indeed it can

Paddy says:

shall we look to some ideas

Beta says:

Yes - we are not a close-minded people. Culture come sin may shapes and sizes.

Beta says:

Indeed.

Beta says:

Let's talk turkey.

Paddy says:

we have iron tech now, you have gold

you will have poly tech soon, and you would like gold

Beta says:

The Lost Boys, at first glance, do not appear to be an immediate threat. They make make a good ally in fact.

Beta says:

Yes - the rade first.

Beta says:

trade

Beta says:

Yes - that is the trade - #2 from your options earlier.

Beta says:

To be honest - we can probably cut a number of trades for IW.

Beta says:

But it would be good to do business with you.

Paddy says:

we give you the Iron tech

you give us the discussed gold



we agree to Polythesium, and not to trade it

we pay you gold per turn for final amount

we then agree on date / payment roster for tech transfer



Beta says:

Agreed.

Paddy says:

ok

Beta says:

To be clear. IW for 30 gold now.

Beta says:

Poly for 5 gpt in 4 turns.

Paddy says:

Agreed

Beta says:

To alliances?

Paddy says:

Lord Beta, a pleasure

Paddy says:

alliances, indeed

Beta says:

as i was saying, I do not see the Lost Boys as an immediate threat.

Paddy says:

indeed

Paddy says:

they could be very important in any matter with those Immortals

Beta says:

They may make a good ally. One to help sway the balance of power so to speak. And yes - to deal with the immortals.

Paddy says:

the immortals are an issue

Beta says:

They may be very appreciative of our support.

Beta says:

Same with Bjorn and crew.

Beta says:

That leaves A-M.

Paddy says:

A_M indeed

Paddy says:

They sit on your border I see

Beta says:

Yes - indded they do.

Beta says:

Not an issue right now - but I expect soon.

Paddy says:

Is that right?

Paddy says:

Not what I want to hear,

Paddy says:

hmmm

Beta says:

How so?

Paddy says:

they have chariots yet?

Beta says:

Don't think so.

Paddy says:

well an alliance is of importance to my people

we value our friends, and work at building and developing friendship

Beta says:

And to be clear - we do not foresee hostilities with A-M in the near future.

Paddy says:

and as we now have an alliance, well basically I would not be to happy to have an allie attacked

Paddy says:

ahhh

Beta says:

Agreed.

Paddy says:

my error indeed

Paddy says:

what do you see for them?

Beta says:

We do not want to tigger any hostilities that the alliance is no ready for.

Paddy says:

yes indeed

Beta says:

Neutrality- until the immortal business is done.

Beta says:

Then we see.

Paddy says:

yes

Beta says:

A worst-case scenario would be DR-Bjorn-A-M alliance.

Paddy says:

I would like to propose that we all start to set a series of watch towers guarding the exits from the borders of DR

Beta says:

Makes sense.

Paddy says:

indeed

Paddy says:

many hands makes a smaller border

Beta says:

We will also cozy up a bit with the Lost Boys - so they can act as an early warning - if they even have their eyes open.

Paddy says:

that would be very good indeed

Beta says:

Can you do the same with Bjorn.

Rob says:

Well...you know how Wendy was seen...Tinker Bell had to wake them up...

Beta says:

hehe

Paddy says:

yes I will talk to my Blood Cell and have the appropriate people dispatched to discuss such matters

Beta says:

What I am thinking here is that the Horde and Babylon would have some sense of the 4 team alliance being struck/formed.

Beta says:

But not the others.

Paddy says:

Yes indeed

Beta says:

If you see my logic.

Paddy says:

That does make a great deal of sense

Beta says:

Guess we need more bowmen.

Paddy says:

Your bowmen, amazing shots I have heard

Beta says:

Yes - and they come in ---ah - hordes of sorts.

Paddy says:

It will do my Horde good to have a strong alliance partner as the Babylonians

Paddy says:

hehe

Beta says:

If you don't mind me using the phrase. No offence intended.

Paddy says:

no offence taken

Beta says:

Well - a good evening's work I would say.

Paddy says:

In the coming days I will have our cartography people develop some cordinates for placemnts of the lookouts

then we can discuss who will man what, and get the other two teams in on their components

Paddy says:

Yes indeed a grand day for the history of our peoples

Beta says:

Sounds good. We should also come up with a more comprehensive tech plan to avoid any duplication in the future.

Paddy says:

yes indeed

Horde Boffins will be instructed to attend meetings with our Blood Cell Ambassador Plato

Paddy says:

so this way all is good indeed

Beta says:

Most excellent!

Beta says:

Well - I will inform Team Babylon of events.

Paddy says:

Indeed

Beta says:

And just contact me whenever we ned to discuss anything.

Paddy says:

I will have a copy of this disptached to you overknight

Beta says:

Merci!

Paddy says:

It has been a pleasure

May your people live in times of peace, happines and great prosperity

Rob says:

bye

Beta says:

I wish all the Horde well, and I propose a toast to our long and prosperous friendship!

Beta says:

Cheers!

Rob says:



PLATO says:

Thank you for this summit Lord Beta.

Beta says:

haha

Beta says:

Thank you Plato!

Beta says:

Good night all.

Paddy says:

Thank you and Good night



Rob has left the conversation.



Beta has left the conversation.

	18-04-2005 11:46									#16
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

(I just read the management summary)

Good work! We should work out deals like these (Poly!) with the other teams, too.

	24-04-2005 00:45									#17
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Paddy is organizing a BoH, Euphorica, and Team Babylon summit for tomorrow. Here are the deatils. I e-mailed a number of you on this as well.

quote: Greetings Lords of the Eve of Destruction, Our three teams, be they the Babylonians, Euphoricans and Horde, have call to meet for a summit this coming Sunday (yeah that be very soon) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Items of Notice: Let us agree to a time: - I say we start as of the earliest GMT 1400 standard 3pm in London Day light saving 8am in Chicago Day light saving 1am in Sydney you can check your times etc here http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/ as this is 8am in Chicago, I dare say our American players would like a sleep in and all so any time after GMT 1400 standard should be suitable due to the hour in Europe, can we not be too late, these lads have J.O.B.S. etc (justification of bloody slavery) for Monday morning - Minutes, the Blood Oath Horde is happy to record all minutes and dispatch a copy to each team. - Each Leader of Nation to keep the meeting in order and on track. - A nominated Ambassador from each nation gives an opening speech (hopefully prewritten and can just be pasted in) - Each team has one main speaker - Other members allowed to enter the chat, but not as a free for all. (recommend all people that are required be invited to the Summit chat, so they can clearly see what is going on) (recommend each team has their own separate chat for back of house research and follow-up, so as to not sully up all the Summit chat) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Agenda: (to be finalized) 1. Opening Speeches 1.1 Agree on Secretary taking the minutes, and forwarding them to the three teams for posting in their own forums. 2. Beginnings of three team alliance outlining 3. Desolation Row. We all lay our cards on the table 4. Lookouts to surround Desolation Row. 4.1 Presentation of lookout maps, prepared by Red Guard Operations Team, to nations with mapmaking.. coordinates to those without 5. beginnings of types of troop commitments each team would be looking to commit to the Battle of Desolation Row. 6. Tech trades.. 6.1 Do we help each other here? 6.2 Would it benefit each of us if the other two are strong 7. Lost Boys, just what will we do with them? 7.1 What of there new city inn middle of map? 8. Confirmation of actions agreed to in points 1 - 7 9. Other Business 10. Confirmation of actions agreed to in Other business ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thank you one and all I look forward to replies from the teams on times, and will come back to you soon with this information Hopefully we can find common times for us all Regards Paddy

	27-04-2005 02:52									#18
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The Desolation Row warrior map.

Attachment: dr map.jpg
This has been downloaded 86 time(s).

	27-04-2005 02:56									#19
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Paddy sent this border proposal with the save.

Attachment: 2470 babylonian borderlands base map 1.jpg
This has been downloaded 84 time(s).

	27-04-2005 02:59									#20
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As I see it, this proposal could have been easily translated in to words: "We're the ones going to the trouble to wipe out Morpork, we get the land. **** off." I can understand that sentiment. Nevertheless, this proposal does not make me happy.

It's not like we're going to be gaining land out of the DR war, which we have committed to fighting, so if we don't get anything on the western front... well, I think we might as well call off this alliance and save ourselves the trouble of fighting other people's battles if there will be no gain in it.

	27-04-2005 11:26									#21
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Please fill me in -- to which battles are we committed?

	27-04-2005 18:29									#22
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Hopefully not any against Morpork. Why should we fight them if were not to get any cities from them?

	27-04-2005 20:34									#23
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In the last chat, the upcoming DR war. (BOH insisted on dealing with Morpork themselves. Perhaps we now know why.)

	27-04-2005 23:39									#24
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Do we have an aprox time frame for when the upcoming DR war is supposed to start?

Is BOH expecting us to attack DR on the same turn that they do or is it okay with them if our attack on DR commences a few turns laster. (After DR has time to move units away from our frontier and towards the BOH front )

quote: Originally posted by Kloreep In the last chat, the upcoming DR war. (BOH insisted on dealing with Morpork themselves. Perhaps we now know why.)

	28-04-2005 01:14									#25
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Euphorica is attacking DR, with a preliminary expedition to deny them iron coming up very soon. We've signed on to support them in the second wave.

You guys should read the log if you get a chance. It's not nearly so bad as it looks; a lot of the length is blank space from the weird MSN logging format.

	28-04-2005 04:10									#26
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Requesting a confirmation from Paddy - and sending a not so subtle message.

quote: Paddy - regarding the map of the border agreement, I can only assume you were serious about it. Please confirm. Thanks, Beta.

	28-04-2005 06:09									#28
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And his reply ... (you have to love Paddy - he gets back to you quickly. )

quote: yes I am serious about it why?

	02-05-2005 04:06									#29
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In a chat with Paddy right now - and it is not going well.

	02-05-2005 06:17									#30
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Not sure if Paddy will send the chat log.

Basically - I challenged them on the border agreement, and he said we basically agreed to it ( ) (um - don't think so) by wanting to stay out of their conflict with A-M. This is a bit of a leap.

I tried to explain that the entire alliance deal is tied together. He said that we had agreed to a tech deal and to help Euphorica eliminate DR, and that the A-M deal was completely separate. I said BOH was delusional if they thought the issues were completely independent,

He did not want me to calll him delusional. And he wanted me to re-read the summit chat log. But I know what I agreed to - and a BOH-Babylon border was not part of it.

After that - he came back on to MSN saying that he had info regarding a DR-LostBoys alliance against Euphorica, and that we had allied with Ankh-Morpork against them.

I explained that it is something we had considered and rejected, and that we had not appoached anyone in this regard, nor had anyone approached us.

I am still on MSN trying to learn more.

I suspect it came from DR or Lost Boys - probably DR.