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Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
time: 14:18
  Old Post 25-03-2005 10:57
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#241 Report this post to a moderator
Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

It's not my fault you guys rely on TV for your information. You'd think you would've learned by now...

GePap is offline GePap
King
of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:18
  Old Post 25-03-2005 10:59
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Suffering from ads?

As opposed to what? The bloggosphere? Hell not. The papers? The polls.

I think pro-lifers get it wrong when they think those tapes of Terri move most people to support the parents. IN all honesty Terry Schiavo looks awful in those tapes, and I would posit that most people see those tapes and think "I would not want to live in that condition".

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
time: 14:18
  Old Post 25-03-2005 11:05
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quote:
The bloggosphere? The papers?


Both excellent sources of information, far better than TV.

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:18
  Old Post 25-03-2005 11:14
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papers are good... blogs are bad

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
time: 14:18
  Old Post 25-03-2005 11:35
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Blogs are pretty much just analysis and discussion of what's going on in the papers.

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:18
  Old Post 25-03-2005 11:36
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or a highly biased op-ed wanna be

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
time: 14:18
  Old Post 25-03-2005 11:39
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What do you think "analysis and discussion" entails? And it's not like the papers don't have their share of highly biased op-eds...

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:18
  Old Post 25-03-2005 11:41
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hahah you're trying to justify reading the equivalent of a tabloid

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
time: 14:18
  Old Post 25-03-2005 11:42
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Eh. At least I can read...

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:18
  Old Post 25-03-2005 11:42
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HAHAHAH BECAUSE I OBVIOUSLY CAN'T OMFG PWNED

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
time: 14:18
  Old Post 25-03-2005 11:43
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I honestly do wonder sometimes.

TCO is offline TCO
Emperor
Richmond, VA
Jan 1970
time: 00:18
  Old Post 25-03-2005 11:46
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Why don't we raise enough money to pay Micheal off and then try alternate treatment for Terri?

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
time: 14:18
  Old Post 25-03-2005 11:49
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It's not his choice anymore and hasn't been since he petitioned the court to make the decision on whether she lived or died. Paying him off won't do anything, as I'm pretty sure he couldn't change the outcome even if he wanted to.

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:18
  Old Post 25-03-2005 11:49
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quote:
Originally posted by TCO
Why don't we raise enough money to pay Micheal off and then try alternate treatment for Terri?
HAHAHA what treatment? are you going to get doctor mccoy to give her a pill to grow a nnew brain? will spock then return her katra to her body?

Ned is offline Ned
Prince
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:18
  Old Post 25-03-2005 12:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
quote:
this case like Habeas Corpus cases where new issues can be raised at the Federal level even after the state proceedings are final.


No it isn't. Habeas Corpus is only for criminal cases. It has no application here, and there is no analogy possible. It isn't "like Habeas Corpus" just like you want it to be. There is no basis in the law for applying Habeas Corpus to a civil case.


Imran, I sometimes wonder about you. The issue in most federal Habeas Corpus cases is the resolution of whether the petitionier's constitutional rights were violated. The Federal Courts, in reviewing these cases, is not bound by the record below. They can receive evidence, such as DNA evidence, that was not available at the time of trial for example, or agree or disagree that the evidence presented or excluded at trial was tainted in some constitutionally defective manner.

While making these determinations, the Federal Courts always issue stay orders so that executions cannot take place before the Federal proceedings are over.

Congress has the POWER under Art. III to grant the same rights to people, like Terry, who are about to be put to death by a state abeit not through a criminal procedure.

Ned is offline Ned
Prince
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:18
  Old Post 25-03-2005 13:06
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Just now on Hannity & Colmes, Davie Bois (sp?), Gore's lawyer, said that the proceedings tonight before the District Court did seem to raise the proper issues for the first time: Whether Terry is actually in a PVS and whether she consented to removing of life support. According to Bois, a state is justified under Supreme Court authority to terminate life support if both conditions are true. According to Boise, the Shindlers presented evidence tonight that brought, for the first time, both issues into legal doubt. This, in his opinion, would justify a plenary review and would make the issuing of an order to preserve Terry's life mandatory in his view.

The district court judge has said he will work on his opinion through the night and will issue it ASAP.

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
time: 14:18
  Old Post 25-03-2005 13:14
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I don't know why this district court judge would seriously re-examine Judge Greer's finding of fact when none of the other judges have.

shawnmmcc is offline shawnmmcc
Prince

Jan 2003
time: 00:18
  Old Post 25-03-2005 13:31
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Imran - fresh from law school, understanding how the legal system should work.

Ned - jaded longtime lawyer, understanding how the system does work, and that judges at times can be a power unto themselves - until reviewed.

Repeating right wing conspiracy theory and looking at this case - while ignoring the fact that, as Medicaid is cut, people are going to die due to substandard medical care (which some of you may now understand is a really hot button for me).

Plus not acknowledging the fact we are rationing health care in the US, even if we don't acknowledge it, and that the huge amount of money spent on keeping someone alive in this state sucks up medical resources, i.e. for prenatal care for example - that could prevent dozens of cases like this in babies for the same amount of money. (don't claim that is not the case, Bush has been trying to cut WIC - women infant child nutrition program since his first budget)

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
Deity
of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:18
  Old Post 25-03-2005 15:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Boris Godunov


The only reasonable explanation I can see for this, and that I would agree with were I in his situation, is that he deeply loves his wife and is fighting to the end to make sure her wishes are fulfilled and she does not live on in such a state.

Were I in his shoes, I'd do the exact same thing for someone I loved. I couldn't just say "**** it" and leave them to continue on that way.


What he said.

DRoseDARs is offline DRoseDARs

Prince
"My god, it's full of peas..."
Jul 2002
time: 21:18
  Old Post 25-03-2005 15:43
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It's starting...

quote:
http://www.newsday.com/news/nationw...ation-headlines

Man Trys Steal Gun to 'Rescue Schiavo'

By Associated Press

March 25, 2005, 3:17 AM EST

SEMINOLE, Fla. -- A man was arrested after trying to steal a weapon from a gun shop so he could "take some action and rescue Terri Schiavo," authorities said.

Michael W. Mitchell, of Rockford, Ill., entered Randall's Firearms Inc. in Seminole just before 6 p.m. Thursday with a box cutter and tried to steal a gun, said Marianne Pasha, a spokeswoman for the Pinellas County Sheriff's Office.

Mitchell, 50, told deputies he wanted to "take some action and rescue Terri Schiavo" after he visited the Pinellas Park hospice where she lives, Pasha said.

The feeding tube that has kept Schiavo alive for more than a decade was removed March 18 over objections from her parents. Schiavo's husband has said his wife would not want to be kept alive artificially.

Doctors have said she would probably die within a week or two of the tube being pulled.

Randy McKenzie, the owner of Randall's Firearms, said Mitchell pulled out the box cutter and broke the glass on a couple of display cases.

"He told me if I wasn't on Terri's side then I wasn't on God's side, either," McKenzie told The Associated Press.

McKenzie said he then pointed his own gun at Mitchell and ordered him to lie on the ground. But Mitchell fled out the store's back door before police arrived, he said.

Mitchell was later arrested in a parking lot and was scheduled to appear in court Friday. He was being held on $125,000 bond on charges of attempted armed robbery, aggravated assault and criminal mischief, officials said.

It was not known if he had a lawyer.

Seminole is about 5 miles west of Pinellas Park.


Ned is offline Ned
Prince
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:18
  Old Post 25-03-2005 16:20
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One of those Harvard Law professors, I can't recall his name, that appears so often on TV in discussing Con law described the legal landscape in a little more detail tonight. He said that states vary in the sufficiency of proof required to make the determination of a decision to die. Most states require a writing or something more than just the testimony of a single witness that is not corroborated in some fashion. Florida, however, does not. He says that he personally disagrees with Florida's law, saying that in his opinion that one needs more to put someone to death.

This raises the fascinating possibility that the constitutionality of the Florida level of proof itself may be at issue if properly raised in this case.

Ned is offline Ned
Prince
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:18
  Old Post 25-03-2005 16:22
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There is the corrolary issue on whether a state may put someone to death who has some consciousness and who does not require anything more than being fed to maintain life.

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
time: 14:18
  Old Post 25-03-2005 16:32
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Well, it's good to know that not every state has such a shockingly low threshold of proof required to authorize the state to kill a person. That's probably the most unbelievable thing about this case, to me at least. Hopefully such standards are limited to Florida and a handful of other states...

Ned is offline Ned
Prince
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:18
  Old Post 25-03-2005 16:55
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BTW, there was a bomb threat at the Florida courthouse during the Schiavo hearing tonight. I have also heard that there are threats against others involved in the case. Given the emotions stirred by the drama of the unfolding events, I would suggest that Judge Greer and Michael Schiavo need to be protected, at least for a time.

Bosh is offline Bosh
Emperor
Taehan Mingook
Jan 1970
time: 00:18
  Old Post 25-03-2005 17:01
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Why, dear god why do people still care?

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
time: 14:18
  Old Post 25-03-2005 17:02
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I can't seem to shake this pesky conscience, despite my best efforts...

Bosh is offline Bosh
Emperor
Taehan Mingook
Jan 1970
time: 00:18
  Old Post 25-03-2005 17:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
I can't seem to shake this pesky conscience, despite my best efforts...

All of her brain is jelly except for the stem. What difference does it make

SpencerH is offline SpencerH
King
Co-Ruler of my patch of land south of Birmingham Alabama
Feb 2002
time: 23:18
  Old Post 25-03-2005 17:13
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quote:
Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat


Naah, just had to deal with too many of 'em and deal with all sorts of regulatory horseshit in work.


I see. More of a barracks-room lawyer for now then

Pretty impressive though going to law school at your age. It was a big enough 'culture shock' for me when I'd just left the army (not law school, undergrad micro). I dont think I could stand it now. It'd be like living at poly OT.

Last edited by SpencerH on 25-03-2005 at 17:19

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:18
  Old Post 25-03-2005 18:31
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quote:
The issue in most federal Habeas Corpus cases is the resolution of whether the petitionier's constitutional rights were violated.


Which is done in CRIMINAL cases, Ned. You aren't listening! Habeus corpus review does not apply in civil cases. Habeus corpus is a petition that you are being held unfairly. That doesn't apply to the civil side.

quote:
Congress has the POWER under Art. III to grant the same rights to people, like Terry, who are about to be put to death by a state abeit not through a criminal procedure.


Even if they did, Ned, READ THE LAW! It says nothing about allowing the Shindlers to bring a new suit on habeus corpus grounds. That would have probably had made a better argument than the crap law they passed, which was simply she can petition the federal court for civil rights violations (which is a federal law, applicable to civil cases, so that avenue was open to them before hand and they were denied).

Oh, and under Article III of the Constitution, Congress has the right to "ordain and establish" smaller federal courts and the right to set the salary of judges. It says nothing about increasing the jurisdiction... that is something that would be an Article I power.

shawnmmcc is offline shawnmmcc
Prince

Jan 2003
time: 00:18
  Old Post 25-03-2005 19:02
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Ned is pwnd.

And ask Ozzy about how he feels considering the powers of a legal guardian.

 
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