25-03-2005 08:10									#181
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And just where is the NOW on this? After all, this women is being killed by her husband who seems to have adverse interests.

	25-03-2005 08:12									#182
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quote: Originally posted by Ned And just where is the NOW on this? After all, this women is being killed by her husband who seems to have adverse interests.

well I think they are aware of the facts, not the RW propaganda aimed at slandering Michael Schiavo, to make him out to be this greedy conniving murderer.

	25-03-2005 08:13									#183
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Imran, I think you are wrong on the "precedent" for future cases. The legislation clearly states that this statute and any results cannot be taken as precedent in future cases. It applies in this case and this case alone.

	25-03-2005 08:15									#184
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quote: Originally posted by Sava well I think they are aware of the facts, not the RW propaganda aimed at slandering Michael Schiavo, to make him out to be this greedy conniving murderer.

Perhaps you have a point. Perhaps also they do not want to be associated with the evil Religious Right whom they have opposed for so many years on the issue of abortion.

	25-03-2005 08:15									#185
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quote: Originally posted by Ned The legislation clearly states that this statute and any results cannot be taken as precedent in future cases. It applies in this case and this case alone.

And, as Imran clearly stated, the legislation cannot make any such determination--that's the role of the judiciary.

Basic civics:

Legislative branch - makes the law
Executive branch - enacts the law
Judicial branch - applies the law

	25-03-2005 08:16									#186
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quote: Imran, I think you are wrong on the "precedent" for future cases. The legislation clearly states that this statute and any results cannot be taken as precedent in future cases. It applies in this case and this case alone.

Congress CANNOT decide what is used precedent and what is not used as precedent. That is an entirely judicial function. If the bill was upheld by a court, in 20 years, perhaps some court uses it as evidence of public opinion on the matter or some such.

Simply saying, don't use this for precedent doesn't work. Congress doesn't have that power. Never has.

	25-03-2005 08:19									#187
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Just now on TV it was reported that the hearing at the district court has been adjourned without decision.

Jeb Bush's general counsel also just said that the State is continue to pursue two appeals and is also researching everything that can possibly be done legally.

As I said before, the main obstacles to Terry seem to be Judge Greer and her husband Michael. If I were them, I would launch an all out attack on both.

	25-03-2005 08:20									#188
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Ned pwns himself by telling an expert on the topic (Imran) he's wrong.

	25-03-2005 08:21									#189
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quote: Originally posted by Ned As I said before, the main obstacles to Terry seem to be Judge Greer and her husband Michael. If I were them, I would launch an all out attack on both.

How about the other judges that have all sided with Schiavo? And the Supreme Court?

And what kind of "attacks" would those be, and how would they remotely help this situation? Jeez, what a lunatic thing to say.

	25-03-2005 08:22									#190
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quote: Originally posted by Ned If I were them, I would launch an all out attack on both.

Yep, your evil.

	25-03-2005 08:23									#191
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Imran, I would like to see a case that upheld a precedent a case that by statute was declared not to be able to the basis for precedent.

Back to de novo, I am sure you would support the general prinicple that the Feds should not be estopped by the States on Federal issues. Res Judicata principles do not here, as there appears to be a principle of Supremacy involved.

	25-03-2005 08:25									#192
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How is this a federal issue?

	25-03-2005 08:27									#193
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That's just it, it isn't a Federal issue. It's clearly a state issue. Ned's argument is patently circular.

	25-03-2005 08:30									#194
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quote: Originally posted by Odin Ned pwns himself by telling an expert on the topic (Imran) he's wrong.

Imran is hardly an expert.

	25-03-2005 08:30									#195
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quote: I would like to see a case that upheld a precedent a case that by statute was declared not to be able to the basis for precedent.

First show me another statute that said "this law cannot be used for precedent beyond this specific individual".

Precedent is the realm of the court and only the realm of the court. For Congress to try to tell the court it cannot use a law for precedent is beyond their power. The only way Congress can impact precedent is to pass a law that goes opposite of current precedent (if that is constitutional.. such as the Religious Freedom Restoration Act which was struck down).

quote: Back to de novo, I am sure you would support the general prinicple that the Feds should not be estopped by the States on Federal issues.

If the case is finished then they most definetly should be. You cannot relitigate a case based on some other issue when the litigation has finished on another issue. If you don't bring it up originally (or are rebuffed by the federal court when you do), you are estopped from bringing it up later.

Think Ned. Civil rights law is already a federal law. If the federal courts are allowed to listen to federal issues on the case de novo based on federal law, and if res judicata does not apply here, why didn't the parents go do that before Congress passed their law? Congress doesn't have to pass a law for a person to challenge on civil rights law.

The answer is that Congress has passed an unconstitutional law. If the court is not bound by res judicata, this Schaivo law would be unnecessary to bring this into federal court.

	25-03-2005 08:32									#196
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quote: Originally posted by General Ludd Imran is hardly an expert.

	25-03-2005 08:48									#197
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quote: Originally posted by Odin Ned pwns himself by telling an expert on the topic (Imran) he's wrong.

Odin, I am a lawyer. Irman is a law student. I am admitted to practice to two states, several federal circuits and the Supreme Court of the United States. I have been practicing law for nearly thirty years. I have been a member of the Board of Directors of three national law associations because my peers voted for me.

How does Imran's opinion trump mine?

	25-03-2005 08:49									#198
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because Imran is right and you are Ned

	25-03-2005 08:50									#199
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quote: Originally posted by Ned How does Imran's opinion trump mine?

Because he's correct in his interpretation, and you are quite wrong in yours.

	25-03-2005 08:51									#200
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov How about the other judges that have all sided with Schiavo? And the Supreme Court? And what kind of "attacks" would those be, and how would they remotely help this situation? Jeez, what a lunatic thing to say.

There is a difference between courts reviewing a record and a direct attack on a judge and/or a guardian. The question of bias or conflict of interest is not before the appellate courts.

	25-03-2005 08:52									#201
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quote: because Imran is right and you are Ned

	25-03-2005 08:52									#202
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quote: Originally posted by Sava How is this a federal issue?

That is a good question. The only possible answer is that Terry is being denied substantive due process, IMHO.

	25-03-2005 08:53									#203
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quote: Odin, I am a lawyer. Irman is a law student. I am admitted to practice to two states, several federal circuits and the Supreme Court of the United States. I have been practicing law for nearly thirty years. I have been a member of the Board of Directors of three national law associations because my peers voted for me.

And just about clueless about Constitutional law, especially in this area, unfortunetly.

	25-03-2005 08:53									#204
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov That's just it, it isn't a Federal issue. It's clearly a state issue. Ned's argument is patently circular.

See my answer above. However, to the extent that there is a federal issue, the Feds should not be bound by the record below.

	25-03-2005 08:53									#205
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quote: Originally posted by Ned That is a good question. The only possible answer is that Terry is being denied substantive due process, IMHO.

well considering this has been adjudicated for over seven years, I doubt that duck would float

	25-03-2005 08:55									#206
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quote: Originally posted by Sava because Imran is right and you are Ned

Iram has a right to his opinion. I agree. But it is also natural for two lawyers to disagree. There is a saying that one lawyer in a town cannot make a money. But with two lawyers, both can become rich.

	25-03-2005 08:56									#207
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quote: The only possible answer is that Terry is being denied substantive due process, IMHO.

If that were the case, the federal courts would have taken it up, because it mostly likely was removed by Schinder's lawyers. If there was a due process issue, it would have been heard and decided already, and there wouldn't have needed another law by Congress specifically to hear this case again.

	25-03-2005 08:56									#208
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Because he's correct in his interpretation, and you are quite wrong in yours.

Perhaps. But he does not win this argument because he is an expert and I am not.

	25-03-2005 08:56									#209
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quote: Originally posted by Ned That is a good question. The only possible answer is that Terry is being denied substantive due process, IMHO.

And yet the Federal courts, when they did look at this case before this new abomination of a law, could not find any issues which would indicate that her due process was violated.

That is the point- no court that has reviewed the original decision has found any reason to overturn it. If there were any substantial problems in the decision, it would have been overturned long ago under the glare this case has had.

	25-03-2005 08:57									#210
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: The only possible answer is that Terry is being denied substantive due process, IMHO. If that were the case, the federal courts would have taken it up, because it mostly likely was removed by Schinder's lawyers. If there was a due process issue, it would have been heard and decided already, and there wouldn't have needed another law by Congress specifically to hear this case again.

Imran, tragically, the Shindler lawyers did not raise this issue on the first pass before the Federal Courts.