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MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
Apolyton Grand Executioner
mooning the house that Ruth built.
Oct 1999
time: 21:18
  Old Post 25-03-2005 08:59
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quote:
Originally posted by SpencerH


I thought you already were a lawyer.


Naah, just had to deal with too many of 'em and deal with all sorts of regulatory horseshit in work.

Ned is offline Ned
Prince
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:18
  Old Post 25-03-2005 08:59
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quote:
Originally posted by GePap


And yet the Federal courts, when they did look at this case before this new abomination of a law, could not find any issues which would indicate that her due process was violated.

That is the point- no court that has reviewed the original decision has found any reason to overturn it. If there were any substantial problems in the decision, it would have been overturned long ago under the glare this case has had.


GePap, the courts can only adjudicate issues raised by a party. The Substantive Due Process issues was not raised by the Shindlers and has not been decided.

I can only hope they raised it in tonight's hearing.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:18
  Old Post 25-03-2005 09:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Ned
Imran, tragically, the Shindler lawyers did not raise this issue on the first pass before the Federal Courts.


Then they are estopped from bringing it again. You can't just bring in new issues in the middle of trial, why should you be able to do so after the trial is over, when you have a principle of finality of judgments?

Ned is offline Ned
Prince
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:18
  Old Post 25-03-2005 09:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
quote:
Odin, I am a lawyer. Irman is a law student. I am admitted to practice to two states, several federal circuits and the Supreme Court of the United States. I have been practicing law for nearly thirty years. I have been a member of the Board of Directors of three national law associations because my peers voted for me.


And just about clueless about Constitutional law, especially in this area, unfortunetly.


Clueless? Hardly. But I do enjoy jousting with you regardless of you naive opinions. I say naive only because you have not been practicing as of yet and may actually believe in absolutes.

Ned is offline Ned
Prince
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:18
  Old Post 25-03-2005 09:04
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quote:
Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat


Naah, just had to deal with too many of 'em and deal with all sorts of regulatory horseshit in work.


Regardless, you have demonstrated time an again a good legal acumen. I salute you.

Ned is offline Ned
Prince
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:18
  Old Post 25-03-2005 09:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui


Then they are estopped from bringing it again. You can't just bring in new issues in the middle of trial, why should you be able to do so after the trial is over, when you have a principle of finality of judgments?


Not raising an issue on a TRO or a preliminary injunction does not estop a party from raising in subsequent proceedings. Even issues that were "decided" are still open for further litigation.

Guynemer is offline Guynemer
King

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Mar 1999
time: 00:18
  Old Post 25-03-2005 09:06
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Imran!

Post in my topic!


...or I'll start BAPAYing every pick...

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:18
  Old Post 25-03-2005 09:09
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quote:
Clueless? Hardly. But I do enjoy jousting with you regardless of you naive opinions. I say naive only because you have not been practicing as of yet and may actually believe in absolutes.


You noticed the smily, I see... oh wait .

I don't believe in absolutes (except in politics), but I DO know that the courts in the country will resist any attempt by the Congress to dictate a decision to them. It definitely violates the theory and practically, the courts will not let them do it. Listen to Judge Napolionato (sp?) who is Fox's legal analyst.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:18
  Old Post 25-03-2005 09:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Ned
Not raising an issue on a TRO or a preliminary injunction does not estop a party from raising in subsequent proceedings. Even issues that were "decided" are still open for further litigation.


I'm not talking about prelim injunctions, I'm talking about in the case in general. If you don't bring the federal issues in at the beginning, you can't bring them up later. You have a choice, you can either go to state court or federal court on an issue, you can't pick both by asserting a federal issue in the middle (or after) a trial.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:18
  Old Post 25-03-2005 09:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Guynemer
Imran!

Post in my topic!


...or I'll start BAPAYing every pick...


EEEP!

Yes sir!

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:18
  Old Post 25-03-2005 09:17
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I see that the real intellectual heavyweights have chimed in...

http://www.ultimatewarrior.com/03.22.05.htm

I thought he was dead. But no.. apparently only insane..

Ned is offline Ned
Prince
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:18
  Old Post 25-03-2005 09:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui


I'm not talking about prelim injunctions, I'm talking about in the case in general. If you don't bring the federal issues in at the beginning, you can't bring them up later. You have a choice, you can either go to state court or federal court on an issue, you can't pick both by asserting a federal issue in the middle (or after) a trial.


Imran, obviously, you have not litigate real cases. The question about raising new issues is always open as most case are litigated over time. As evidence presents new issues, they are litigated and decided in due course without necessarily requiring an amendment to the pleadings.

When a case is final, though, and on appeal, new issues normally cannot be presented and decided. But this does not estop the appellate court from raising them themselves and deciding a case on such new issues sua sponte. I have a party to more than one such case.

Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
King
Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:18
  Old Post 25-03-2005 09:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Agathon
I see that the real intellectual heavyweights have chimed in...

http://www.ultimatewarrior.com/03.22.05.htm

I thought he was dead. But no.. apparently only insane..


I don't know who that is, but he's indeed an idiot. He refers to Terri's parents as the Schiavos, which anybody with a passing knowledge of the case wouldn't say. And he calls her brain dead, which we all also know isn't the case. And then there's all the other crap.

But hey, he at least came to the right conclusion, if by dubious logical techniques.

Ned is offline Ned
Prince
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:18
  Old Post 25-03-2005 09:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
quote:
Clueless? Hardly. But I do enjoy jousting with you regardless of you naive opinions. I say naive only because you have not been practicing as of yet and may actually believe in absolutes.


You noticed the smily, I see... oh wait .

I don't believe in absolutes (except in politics), but I DO know that the courts in the country will resist any attempt by the Congress to dictate a decision to them. It definitely violates the theory and practically, the courts will not let them do it. Listen to Judge Napolionato (sp?) who is Fox's legal analyst.


I agree that the Courts are not taking the opinions of Congress and the pres. and an edict to come to a predetermined result.

As to you personally, I eargerly await your "awakening" when you lose your first case, a case you thought you could not lose on any grounds, law or fact. The legal profession has its mysteries.

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:18
  Old Post 25-03-2005 09:29
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quote:
I don't know who that is, but he's indeed an idiot.


Of course he is...

It's the Ultimate Warrior formerly of the World Wrestling Federation (translation - a muscular clown in fluorescent makeup). He famous for being mad and really believing that he is the Ultimate Warrior.

I stop by his site when I need a laugh... this was quite bizarre even for him though.

Attachment: warrior.jpg
This has been downloaded 37 time(s).

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:18
  Old Post 25-03-2005 09:33
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#226 Report this post to a moderator
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I thought that guy died

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:18
  Old Post 25-03-2005 09:33
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quote:
The question about raising new issues is always open as most case are litigated over time. As evidence presents new issues, they are litigated and decided in due course without necessarily requiring an amendment to the pleadings.


You cannot remove while in mid trial. You only have a limited time frame for the case to go up to the federal level (removal is limited to 30 days after filing). Once that time passes, removal is not an option.

quote:
When a case is final, though, and on appeal, new issues normally cannot be presented and decided. But this does not estop the appellate court from raising them themselves and deciding a case on such new issues sua sponte.


Yes, appellate courts can decide on anything they want. But in this case they have not. The civil rights and due process issue has already been turned down by the Supreme Court for appeal.

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:18
  Old Post 25-03-2005 09:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Sava
I thought that guy died


No he's still around and barking mad too. He makes that Gannon guy look normal.

I saw this on Fark, and someone said there that he's changed his name to "Warrior" and appeared before Congress, whereupon CSPAN had to idenitfy him as "Warrior".

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:18
  Old Post 25-03-2005 09:44
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It's true... what a doofus..

Attachment: 22.jpg
This has been downloaded 43 time(s).

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:18
  Old Post 25-03-2005 09:56
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Odin is offline Odin
Prince
Biology Nerd at Minnesota State University Moorhead
Sep 2000
time: 23:18
  Old Post 25-03-2005 10:02
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Pro-wrestlers are stupid, throw rocks at them.

Ned is offline Ned
Prince
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:18
  Old Post 25-03-2005 10:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
quote:
The question about raising new issues is always open as most case are litigated over time. As evidence presents new issues, they are litigated and decided in due course without necessarily requiring an amendment to the pleadings.


You cannot remove while in mid trial. You only have a limited time frame for the case to go up to the federal level (removal is limited to 30 days after filing). Once that time passes, removal is not an option.



Imran, this case like Habeas Corpus cases where new issues can be raised at the Federal level even after the state proceedings are final.

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
time: 14:18
  Old Post 25-03-2005 10:33
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Ralph Nader comes out in support of Terri Schiavo.

quote:
Consumer Advocate Ralph Nader and Wesley J. Smith, author of the award winning book "Culture of Death: The Assault on Medical Ethics in America" call upon the Florida Courts, Governor Jeb Bush and concerned citizens to take any legal action available to let Terri Schiavo live.

"A profound injustice is being inflicted on Terri Schiavo," Nader and Smith asserted today. "Worse, this slow death by dehydration is being imposed upon her under the color of law, in proceedings in which every benefit of the doubt-and there are many doubts in this case-has been given to her death, rather than her continued life."

Among the many injustices in this case, Nader and Smith point to the following:

The courts not only are refusing her tube feeding, but have ordered that no attempts be made to provide her water or food by mouth. Terri swallows her own saliva. Spoon feeding is not medical treatment. "This outrageous order proves that the courts are not merely permitting medical treatment to be withheld, it has ordered her to be made dead," Nader and Smith assert.

The medical and rehabilitation experts are split on whether Terri is in a persistent vegetative state or whether Terri can be improved with therapy. There is only one way to know for sure- permit the therapy. That is the only way to resolve all doubts.

The court is imposing process over justice. After the first trial in this case, much evidence has been produced that should allow for a new trial-which was the point of the hasty federal legislation. If this were a death penalty case, this evidence would demand reconsideration. Yet, an innocent disabled woman is receiving less justice.

The federal and state governments are spending billions on what we are told will become miracle medical cures for people with all sorts of degenerative conditions, including brain damage. If this is so, why not permit Terri's parents and siblings who want to care for her do so in the hope that such cures are discovered?

Benefits of doubts should be given to life, not hastened death. This case is rife with doubt. Justice demands that Terri be permitted to live.


http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=44858

The man really has a thing for lost causes, doesn't he?

Ned is offline Ned
Prince
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:18
  Old Post 25-03-2005 10:33
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The Florida Supreme Court has just sustained Judge Greer ruling this afternoon.

Quo Vadis, Jeb?

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:18
  Old Post 25-03-2005 10:35
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quote:
Contact: Ralph Nader, 202-387-8034

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
King
of Internet Music.
Sep 2001
time: 21:18
  Old Post 25-03-2005 10:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
quote:
I wish these right to lifers would just go home already.


I think you're deluding yourself if you think it's only right-to-lifers who find killing Terri Schiavo to be a morally questionable act.


After watching days and days of network news on this case one could be forgiven for thinking otherwise. In fact it seems that right to lifers are the vaste, vaste majority of anti-carrying out the court order people. Almost to the exculsion of anyoe else.

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
time: 14:18
  Old Post 25-03-2005 10:38
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Yeah, I wonder how you would get that impression from the MSM. It's not like they have a bug up their ass about the religious right or anything...

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:18
  Old Post 25-03-2005 10:39
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:tinfoil:

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:18
  Old Post 25-03-2005 10:39
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quote:
this case like Habeas Corpus cases where new issues can be raised at the Federal level even after the state proceedings are final.


No it isn't. Habeas Corpus is only for criminal cases. It has no application here, and there is no analogy possible. It isn't "like Habeas Corpus" just like you want it to be. There is no basis in the law for applying Habeas Corpus to a civil case.

GePap is offline GePap
King
of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:18
  Old Post 25-03-2005 10:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
Yeah, I wonder how you would get that impression from the MSM. It's not like they have a bug up their ass about the religious right or anything...


You get the impression form watching Fox News for god's sake! Even the American Pravda shows only the pro-lifers crying on about the Schindler's.

 
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