04-04-2005 22:31									#1
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OK, we haven't buried JP yet, but it's an interesting subject. Who will be the next pope?

The WaPo has profiles of some of the supposed candidates.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...9-2005Apr3.html

Lots of good guys although some are fringe left economics types (Maradiaga) and some are uninspiring, at least for me (Ratzinger).

One cardinal that they didn't mention was Cardinal Ortega of Cuba. Does anybody have information on him? I understand that he's a dissident and has relatives in Florida. Had a dust-up with immigration authorities in Florida recently. Age 68, so he won't be around forever -- maybe good after the long reign of JP. Transition from Marxism, etc.

Last edited by DanS on 04-04-2005 at 22:39

	04-04-2005 23:06									#2
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IMHO it depends on what the majority of the Vatican wishes.

If they want a transitional pope with a short reign, Ratzinger has dgood chances,
as he has a very strong influence within the Vatican, is already 77, is very conservative and was very clos to JP II.

If they want a longer Papacy, they will very likely elect someone who is much younger, maybe under 70 and, considering the influence of the italian cardinals might probably come from italy

	04-04-2005 23:19									#3
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Do the Italian cardinals really have much influence? I haven't quantified it before.

	05-04-2005 00:01									#4
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They're all knocking on a bit though, aren't they?

	05-04-2005 00:12									#5
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Do you mean that they're all old? If so, then of course.

	05-04-2005 00:13									#6
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I'm think either someone named John, Leon, Paul, or Ringo

	05-04-2005 04:36									#7
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quote: Originally posted by DanS Do the Italian cardinals really have much influence? I haven't quantified it before.

Well, at least they have the largest number of Cardinals compared to all other countries.
AFAIK they have 21 Cardinals while Continents like Africa or South America just have 12 Cardinals each (Europe [including Italy] AFAIK has 60 Cardinals].
They may not be able to dictate the conclave for themselves, but it sounds to me like they are a strong factor within the conclave.

	05-04-2005 04:51									#8
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I hope noncatholics like myself are welcome in this thread as long as we are at least as respectful as the catholics...

There was one Italian they mentioned on TV who spoke many languages, he sounded interesting. I'm curious to know which languages they are: Obviously Italian and Latin, I would guess Spanish, I don't remember what the number was.

I figure now it's bound to be an Italian, although previously I thought Latin American.

Which individual country has the most Catholics? USA? Mexico?

I seem to have misunderstood about where Popes get their new names from. I had thought there was a list that had been written centuries ago, and that there were only one or two names left, and that when they're used up that would be time for the Second Coming. But now it sounds like the new Pope chooses the name, and if it's JP3 he'll follow the ways of JP2, but if it's John##, he's a reformer.

It sounds like the new guy has to be fairly old, kind of like in my church.

	05-04-2005 05:29									#9
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The one who spoke many languages is Maradiaga, who I mentioned above as a fringe leftist on economics. He's not marxist, but he speaks in the code of the anti-globalization folks.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...0-2005Apr2.html

Regarding the country with the largest number of catholics, that would be Brazil.

Regarding the names, the pope choses a new name based upon whatever criteria he sees fit. Some reasons might be that the name was the name of his predecessor in the papcy, his spiritual hero, or mentor. According to Wikipedia, the taking of a new name as Pope began in 535.

	05-04-2005 05:39									#10
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In that case I hope it's not Maradiaga. Not that it should make a huge difference to me...

	05-04-2005 05:50									#11
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Italians are now less then 1/5 of the conclave

	05-04-2005 06:01									#12
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Brazil has the most Catholics, though I might add that many Brazilians practice more than one religion. Many Brazilian Catholics are also pagans and/or Protestants.

There will be 117 Cardinals participating in the conclave. Fifity-eight will be from Europe, 12 from the US and the rest from Latin America, Africa, Oceana, and Asia.

	05-04-2005 07:53									#13
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I like the Argentine but he's a Jesuit so not much chance.

Ironically, many catholics are crying out for a Pope not like this one. No more media junky ultra orthodox authoritarian centralisers please. The church has rotted from within under JPII. The power of the Vatican needs curbing and democratising. There is very strong feeling around about this.

It seems the Cardinals feel the same way, quite a paradox.

Be prepared either for a surprise choice or a transitional figure.

	05-04-2005 08:06									#14
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how long till a new pope is appointed?

	05-04-2005 08:15									#15
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POPIN AIN'T EASY!

	05-04-2005 08:41									#16
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Again, not that it should make a huge difference to me, but JP2 sounds like a good one for the next one to emulate. But I know pretty much zip about any popes between WW2 and JP2, and pretty much zip about any between the middle ages and WW2. From what I've heard, the conclave starts nine days after the death, or maybe it starts the day of the funeral? and sometime in the next 12 days the choice is made.

	05-04-2005 08:48									#17
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To say JPII is being damned with feint praise within the church would be an understatement.

Its becoming quite unreal. He's being praised to the skies and roundly condemned at the same time.

	05-04-2005 08:58									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse To say JPII is being damned with feint praise within the church would be an understatement. Its becoming quite unreal. He's being praised to the skies and roundly condemned at the same time.

I haven't heard any of that, but then I'm not Catholic and may not be listening to the same sources.

How has the Roman Catholic Church rotted from within?

	05-04-2005 09:05									#19
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They lost a 100,000 priests and about 500,000 people in holy orders during his term. The Church is in a very poor state, in crisis in fact. JPII and the Vatican is blamed for a lot of that, as he got older he became more and more autocratic. The Cardinals don't want another Pope like that. Neither do the clergy or laeity.

There is great sadness at his death, real grief, I feel it too, but also a sense of relief and hope that someone will come forward who will turn things around.

Last edited by Alexander's Horse on 05-04-2005 at 10:26

	05-04-2005 09:07									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Proteus_MST IMHO it depends on what the majority of the Vatican wishes.

I heard it's supposed to be a 2/3 vote...unless there's a deadlock for x days, then it drops down to a majority.

x = 70 days IIRC.

	05-04-2005 09:56									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski how long till a new pope is appointed?

Conclave must begin 15 days after the death of the pope. It will last until they elect a new pope, but it's unlikely that will take more than 2-3 days. Should it go longer than 3 days (IIRC), the voting rule changes so that the new pontiff only has to receive a simple majority instead of two-thirds of the vote.

So in short...about two weeks from now.

	05-04-2005 10:04									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Zkribbler I heard it's supposed to be a 2/3 vote...unless there's a deadlock for x days, then it drops down to a majority. x = 70 days IIRC.

Actually, I looked it up, and it's not days...it's after 30 unsuccessful votes. So they can go to the majority wins rule after 8-9 days, given that there are normally 4 votes per day and that they get a one day break after 3 days of deliberating.

Of course, the don't have to go to majority wins--that's just an option to help break a deadlock.

	05-04-2005 10:32									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse They lost a 100,000 priests and about 500,000 people in holy orders during his term. The Church is in a very poor state, in crisis in fact. JPII and the Vatican is blamed for a lot of that, as he got older he became more and more autocratic. The Cardinals don't want another Pope like that. Neither do the clergy or laeity. There is great sadness at his death, real grief, I feel it too, but also a sense of relief and hope that someone will come forward who will turn things around.

Most people want:

1) Women priests
2) Married priests
3) Relaxed rules regarding birth control
4) Relaxed rules regarding homosexuality


What do you think Horse? Letting women be priests and letting the priests be married would do alot to improve the church's image both inside and out.

	05-04-2005 10:33									#24
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5) Judas Priests

	05-04-2005 10:44									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker What do you think Horse? Letting women be priests and letting the priests be married would do alot to improve the church's image both inside and out.

Birth control was the issue that damaged the church the most. Thats blown up again because of aids.

The married priest question was one of the low points of this pontificate. The church already has married priests, they are Anglican/Episcopalian converts mostly. But the Pope said the celibacy rule would not be relaxed even though it has no theological basis and this is not disputed.

The women priests thing was even worse - not only did JPII rule it out completely but he forbade discussion of it. How can you forbid discussion of something? The days when the Vatican can just issue edicts and everyone obeys are long gone.

	05-04-2005 10:45									#26
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Too many pope threads. Lock it, rock it.

	05-04-2005 11:21									#27
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If people want 1) 3) and 4), why call it the same religion? Married Priests however, is how it is supposed to be in my belief.

If you don't want to follow the teachings of said church, why not leave it?

	05-04-2005 11:39									#28
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I want to see a Pope named Guido before I die...

	05-04-2005 11:39									#29
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Brent is the exact reason why the church has been in decline.

	05-04-2005 12:18									#30
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Ben Kenobi for Pope