12-08-2005 23:58									#121
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I had chatted with Snoopy last night. He was sending that to us, because they were first thinking of leaving the game, but they then desided to stay, so they don't want us to take it. So I didn't accept it.

E_T

	19-08-2005 08:16									#122
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to McM and Snoopy ...

quote: Hi snoop and McM. Please hang in there as a civ. We have 1889 on side to try and pressure DR into forming a four team alliance to tackle BoH. We are making slow headway with DR, but sooner or later they have to wake up and smell the roses. We are sucking up big time to BOH and AM - for our own survival, and with any luck, eventual revenge.

	20-08-2005 05:20									#123
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Urgent!! Send to Euph:

Where do you NOT want our Warrior to move?? And is there someplace (this turn) that they would rather that we DO move to??

E_T

	30-08-2005 08:33									#124
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This is important, for our Redemtion plan to succeed, we will need LB and Euph to send us as much cash, as possible, this very next turn.

We must receive it on the 1025 BC save, accepted. THis is vital. We will send back any funds that we don't need, same turn.

E_T

	30-08-2005 20:52									#125
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to snoopy amd mcm:

quote: From E_T: "This is important, for our Redemtion plan to succeed, we will need LB and Euph to send us as much cash, as possible, this very next turn. We must receive it on the 1025 BC save, accepted. THis is vital. We will send back any funds that we don't need, same turn." If you can spare gold - it would be a lifesaver, and we will try and get it back to you asap. Thanks in advance for whatever you can manage. ...Beta.

	20-09-2005 19:16									#126
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Someone, Please, Send to Euphorica:

How are things going?? Are you down to your last city at this time??

We have made every effort, on your behalf, with trying to get DR to make peace with you and concentrate on BoH, but to no success, it would seem (unless the absence of Battle reports means that your finally talking??)

Let them know that, at this moment, we have fought off the AM attacks and are relatively secure, for now.

We hope to get Iron this next turn and need as much cash as possible. Also, if you still have a surplus and don't want the wolves to get it, we can hold it for you.

Granted, the send all cash, every turn, and sending back won't work if BoH attacks, as they are before us, but would work if DR attacks. But maybe you can send some of it and we can send back, every turn, and you can accept or not, depending on your situation.

Or atleast, we can use that for our Upgrades and pay you back later.

Also, what can you tell us of whatever BoH DR units you can see?? Do you have enough for a last defiant stand? Or is it a forlorn hope??

Please let us know.

Team Babylon

----------------------------

Maybe we can get the Intel without an embassy, also if they send the cash, we might use it for an embassy.....

I don't like Betraying Euph, but if and only If it gets BoH moving against AM, then it would be a worthy sacrifice.

E_T

	20-09-2005 22:06									#127
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Sent to Snoopy369 and McMeadows:

quote: Lords of the Dance, It has been too long since our nations spoke. How are things going?? Are you down to your last city at this time?? We have made every effort, on your behalf, with trying to get DR to make peace with you and concentrate on BoH, but to no success, it would seem (unless the absence of Battle reports means that your finally talking??) Let them know that, at this moment, we have fought off the AM attacks and are relatively secure, for now. We hope to get Iron this next turn and need as much cash as possible. Also, if you still have a surplus and don't want the wolves to get it, we can hold it for you. Granted, the send all cash, every turn, and sending back won't work if BoH attacks, as they are before us, but would work if DR attacks. But maybe you can send some of it and we can send back, every turn, and you can accept or not, depending on your situation. Or atleast, we can use that for our Upgrades and pay you back later. Also, what can you tell us of whatever BoH DR units you can see?? Do you have enough for a last defiant stand? Or is it a forlorn hope?? Please let us know. -Skrobism Vox Inannum Babylonian Ambassador to Euphorica

	20-09-2005 22:19									#128
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I DO NOT LIKE BETRAYING EUPHORICA.

BOH already does not trust us. They feel we held back on techs due them.

BOH already knows that we were willing to get involved in a vassal deal with AM just to betray AM.

Now if we stab Euphorica in the back, for absolutely no reason, we are worse than the Horde and AM.

I know that Euphorica has nothing that can aide us now, but Babylon will not be the cause of losing their last city.

Babylon would lose face to all the nations of the world. We cannot backstab our friends for a temporary peace with the Horde.

	20-09-2005 22:48									#129
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I agree. My feeling is that BOH wants to get us to betray a friend and then come stomp on us anyway.

Let's not allow them to say, "you're no better than we are - just weaker." Dignity and class will be our hallmarks!

	20-09-2005 23:04									#130
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From Snoopy369:

quote: Babylon- We're indeed down to one city, and will probably have to decide soon whether to abandon the game, or allow BoH to pick us off whenever they feel like it, generating leaders until then. However, *until* then, we are tying down a decent portion of their force, as DR is no longer actively fighting us. If you have a chance to attack them, I suggest doing it soon; they have a large force outside Beach Boys, and pretty much have to keep it there ... For now, we need to hold our money, as we're losing money every turn. If and when we decide to retire, we will pass the money on to you. -Snoopy369

my reply:

quote: Snoopy369, It is sad that the once glorious TNA is reduced to this in fighting and murder. Thank you for the update. I am sorry if my letter sounded like a request for money. I was offering to hold it for you as Lost Boys did for us while we were losing cities to the lying Morporkians. Concerning the Blood Oath Horde. They are not close enough for our armies to attack. We are actually trying to keep them talking, and pushing them to attack Ahnk-Morpork. When we plead with the Blood Oath Horde to turn their eyes from Euphorica toward's AM they begin the threats towards us again. Our armies are tied up in fights with the Morporkians. We cannot send aide. If you do decide to leave the game do send lawyers, guns, and money. May the music live on, May you keep dancing, -Skrobism Vox Inannum Babylonian Ambassador to Euphorica

	20-09-2005 23:31									#131
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What a sad conclusion of the TNA story

	20-09-2005 23:58									#132
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Yes, sad. But then, Euphorica goes down with style and dignity, this is much better than winning through betrayal

	21-09-2005 00:11									#133
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Hear, hear!

Can't we do anything for them?

Maybe point out to BOH that three civs (Babylon, Euphorica, BOH) can research three times as fast as 1 (BOH and their world with NO friends).

Of course they will sing the old song of betrayal, yada yada. And of course we will do anything we can to avoid giving them anything.

How about guaranteeing that we will declare on Euph. if they get peace from BOH and then betray it?

I know, nothing very likely. But is there something that I can try?

I believe that the Mighty Paddy the Khan is receptive to me even if his firebrands aren't. Something that shows that exploiting Euph any more or exterminating them is not as useful as keeping them alive. Allies (ahem) vs. DR?

Can I write to DR and see what they are thinking?

LN is still a blank (boooo!).

Golden Bear, Ambassador to the Horde

	21-09-2005 00:14									#134
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Beware. Paddy the Kahn is very different from Paddy the Scot.

	21-09-2005 00:46									#135
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Point taken.

	21-09-2005 03:27									#136
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from McM:

quote: I just "played" the save to avoid to much delay. I donated 100 gold to Babylon, remaining 18 for us. We are at -3 gpt atm. see attachment for the deployment of BOH troops in ourt lands. If you want to convince AM of DR to act upon BOH with this info, feel free. We will be out any turn. I hold the save for a few hours (sleep) to allow Snoopy to overrule me in this. I haven't moved a unit, so there's no advantage to replay the turn if he desires. Go ahead matey, if ya wanna have a go at the save do it and send it on. McM

My reply:

quote: OH CR4P I DIDN'T COPY MYSELF SOMEONE PLEASE EDIT THIS WITH MY REPLY.

	21-09-2005 07:31									#137
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Skorb, I don't like it one bit either. And I really don't think that we should.

BUT We did Opt for Revenge apon AM and sometimes, the path to Revenge requires moves that are very distasteful and immoral. Even betrayal sometimes is needed to make the ultimate goal.

Revenge is like that. ANd I'll do What ever I can to keep from having to do that, but the team did want Revenge, literally, at any cost, overwelmingly at that.

But it's best to be prepaired and try to explore as many options as possible before we go down that final path.

Because, if we really do that, then our trustwothyness is completely gone.

But then, sometimes that's the price of revenge. Maybe we need to re-examine that?

E_T

	21-09-2005 08:12									#138
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BOH has only threatened us. We do not need to kick Eu to please BOH.

BOH can attack AM and make peace with us on its own merits. What does BOH need Eu pix for anyway?

Should we ask Eu's permission before selling them out? They seem ready to quit anyway.

I do not want this coming out that Babylon sold out Eu for peace with the Whored.

	21-09-2005 08:35									#139
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Screenshot from Euph of BoH Units.

BoH wants to try to generate Elites and GL's.

IMHO, Euph needs to send us all of their money and then, after it's accepted, Retire.

But go out in a blaze of glory before they retire.

E_T

Attachment: boh.jpg
This has been downloaded 8 time(s).

	21-09-2005 11:05									#140
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Revenge wil be nice!

	21-09-2005 15:27									#141
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Holy crap that's a SoD

	21-09-2005 19:25									#142
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Eu is done. We can get permission to spy. Maybe we convince Eu to send us a screenie so we don't even need to build an embassy. We send the info to BOH. Eu sends us money and whatever else they desire. Eu then retires. BOH has nothing.

If we go with that plan. Golden Bear sends word to BOH that he knows Babylon is officially friends with Eu. But, GB is new and doesn't see the point of all this loyalty to a team that has done nothing for us and can do nothing in the future.

This shows GB's and Babylon's desire to deal with reality. The reality that BOH is the top dog. Babylon wishes to live in peace bla bla...

Then we can decide how to screw BOH after the defeat of AM.

Ideas?

Last edited by skrobism on 21-09-2005 at 19:52

	21-09-2005 21:09									#143
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Hmm. I really don't want BOH to think that they can control us enough to make us betray friends. I'll dance around that somehow. They are slow witted. Although Ruby seemed to catch the SoC joke.

OK, if Euph is willing to take a pill to help us, we should time it so that we can trade it to BOH before Euph retires. I'll say we did the embassy, etc. I need the unit count also. I'd like to get the timing so that we get value out of trading the info, and Euph retires before BOH can molest them further.

A bad wrinkle is that Ruby is out of communication for 48 hours and I don't know if anybody else is picking up for him.

Is there any objection if I ask BOH whether there are any possible conditions under which Euph can survive? I can point out the indirect advantage of multiple civs working on techs, etc.

Anyway, Skro, if you are up to the depressing task, talk to them about the screenshot and the unit count, etc. Be honest about our motives. If we can, we'll do for BOH after we cripple AM. That leaves DR or LB to win the game I guess.

Golden Bear

	21-09-2005 21:35									#144
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---------------------
OUT OF GAME (kind of):
I do not think that BOH is slow witted as a whole. They are playing this game like they are quick tempered barbarians, who take a "blood oath" only to the Horde. They are playing that role well.

Now that I understand that we are getting on well out of game. I have been in chats with RubyChaser, PLATO, and Paddy. First are the personal hellos, how's life, nice to meet you. Then once we decide we are in-game, their tones all change: very quick tempered, threatening, long SCREEMING RANTS that must have been prepared ahead of time.

Do not confuse the team members with their in-game persona. That caused much heart-ache and confusion when TNA was first betrayed. Especially with Paddy who seems able to dish it out in character, but not be able to take it.

I believe BOH is playing explosive backstabbing warmongers to the Nth degree and doing it well.
----------------------------

----------------------------
IN GAME:
Do not confuse a quick temper, and uncultured living with being slow-witted. The Blood Oath Horde is a force to be reckoned with. They did not build that SoD by being dim.

They seem to respect those who stand up to them only if you ultimatly give them something. BOH feels that we owe them. BOH feels that we betrayed them. They are of course wrong, but when talking with them conceed that there were misunderstandings, and that Babylon would like to make up for that.

re: Eu
The only reason BOH will allow Eu to continue to exist is to b1tch slap them and build a more exp'd SoD. Eu's biggest favor to the world would be to either quit or sail around the world and abandon Beach Boys.

re: revenge on BOH
Those backstabbing warmongers will pay one day for what they did to Euphorica and Babylon. The TNA was to be a great alliance, and example to the world. BOH set us up from the start. They will pay.

But first - The Morpork slime must die.
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	21-09-2005 22:22									#145
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Sorry if I gave the impression that I actually regarded them as slow witted. I was just playing with the barbarian stereotype for some humor.

Ruby has not been ranting at me much in the PMs, as you can see. We've agreed that it is fine to do it in the public forum as it suits both of interests to give the impression that we don't get along.

	21-09-2005 23:25									#146
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no problem.