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Beta
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Prowling in a PBEM near you!
Nov 2002
time: 00:34
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Finally - a voice of reason..... from snoopy..
quote:
Beta, i'm not aware of any of this, and to be completely honest i'm not
sure what to tell you. From our end we see a three team alliance
against DR, and LB is a question mark. What's going on with Paddy, only
he could tell you ...
Math should not be a problem, we should be able to aquire it via other
means, although we'd probably expect a bit more technologically, in the
long run; we understand that you took the deal proposed in good faith,
and aren't going to press it.
Why you would go to war with DR, I presume, is to rid the world of the
dangerous team of DR, who is at their most dangerous right now. They
would soon get iron connected, were it not for our crack team of archers
and spearmen bearing down on them; and they would be then the dominant
world power, with immortals and a quick GA at their leisure.
We appreciate your support, and hope it will be forthcoming, in time for
what will be much needed rear pincers action in a dozen turns or so.
Whatever happens with BOH, do not doubt our strength of conviction, and
the alliance we have made with you will remain as such.
In terms of borders arrangements, at least on the DR side of things we
will be very amenable to delineating a border that is favorable to both
sides; although it looks like our military will probably take the brunt
of the action, we see no reason to desire an unfair portion of the land
- this game is unlikely to last long enough to settle all of that space
anyway, regardless of the exact border delineation.
Also, if LB ends up in this mix as well on the opposite side, we would
probably expect and hope that you lead the strike against them - and
given their close proximity to you, undoubtedly you would gain much from
that strike. Of course, any efforts you can take to delay action on
their part would be appreciated, and if they don't end up against us, so
much the better.
Thanks for the update, and I hope you can figure things out with Paddy?
-Snoopy369, Foreign Minister, Keyboard
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Beta
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Prowling in a PBEM near you!
Nov 2002
time: 00:34
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chat with snoopy tonight - with some of the pleasantries deleated...
Beta says:
The BOH -Babylon relationship is getting seriously frayed.
Beta says:
They presneted us with a border deal as I explained.
Beta says:
They figure that since they attacked A_M unilaterally, they get the land.
Beta says:
We explained that in an alliance, there has to be something in it for everyone.
snoopy369 says:
Yes.
Beta says:
Paddy says his teams views stand - and that now they are pissed with us.
Beta says:
Although tonight he did ask for a counter-proposal.
Beta says:
Whic for us - would be to split the A-M land.
snoopy369 says:
You and Paddy have a very different view of things here.
Beta says:
Yes - clearly.
snoopy369 says:
This is where the issue is coming.
snoopy369 says:
Paddy does not view this as a permanent alliance. He views this as an anti-DR alliance.
Beta says:
My folks thinks he brings a pbem view of things.
Beta says:
Yes - agreed.
Beta says:
In which case - our view is why bother.
snoopy369 says:
Hence why he does not take the AM part into account with you; he feels that they are separate issues.
Beta says:
DR is no threat to us.
snoopy369 says:
Well - that is your choice.
snoopy369 says:
I had presumed you were interested in the alliance, when it was brought to us.
snoopy369 says:
But we had no knowledge of why, or on what terms
Beta says:
Our agreement to the DR campaign was for a long-term alliance.
snoopy369 says:
Was it?
snoopy369 says:
in writing, I mean?
snoopy369 says:
or was it implied??
Beta says:
Implied.
snoopy369 says:
Paddy was very specific with us, that he did not think of this as a long term alliance, but as a specific alliance; not that we can't work together as a group towards common goals, but that the three of us were, first, an alliance for one goal.
snoopy369 says:
We are more flexible, than he is, i think, in this regard.
Beta says:
And more reasonable too I may add.
snoopy369 says:
We see a need to eliminate DR, now, for two reasons, one of which you share, possibly the other.
snoopy369 says:
I like to think so.
snoopy369 says:
One, that you share I presume, is that Aqua's team, if fully active, is the most dangerous in the game. It contains some of the best PBEM players, and some of the more knowledgable DG players, at Poly.
snoopy369 says:
And furthermore they have, at this stage in the game, the most dangerous civ.
Beta says:
Understood.
snoopy369 says:
Thus, they are *inherently* a danger, in and of themselves, regardless of map position or anything else.
snoopy369 says:
The second, which may or may not concern you - i'll get to that in a bit - is their position on the map.
snoopy369 says:
We certainly need to take them out, because of their proximity to us, and the fact that we are one of two logical targets; the second is Lost Boys, and they seem to be allying with DR, at least in some ways.
Beta says:
How so?
snoopy369 says:
Well, LB went from last in tech, to equal with DR, in one turn.
snoopy369 says:
Gaining at least 2 if not 3 techs instantly.
Beta says:
We heard runours from Paddy to this effect.
snoopy369 says:
We *must* presume that means they are, in some ways, close to DR, and less likely to be attacked by them.
Beta says:
We traded Poly to them.
snoopy369 says:
Poly was not one of those techs (as we didn't have it to know).
snoopy369 says:
(Did you give us poly by now?)
snoopy369 says:
i forget
Beta says:
ok
Beta says:
yes
snoopy369 says:
ah k
snoopy369 says:
anyway
Beta says:
How did you get math?
snoopy369 says:
Ankh-Morpork.
snoopy369 says:
It may be tricksy for us to get it to BoH, however, if you get my meaning.
Beta says:
Us too. DR would not trade it.
snoopy369 says:
ah, you traded AM for it?
Beta says:
Yes - I understand your meaning.
Beta says:
Yep - last turn.
snoopy369 says:
ah; sad that you didn't wait to get it from us, although if BoH is as thorough as they claim with AM, it won't matter much.
snoopy369 says:
But, i'd rather not be giving them techs DR can get.
snoopy369 says:
Anyway, your second reason for concern would be that, if DR decides to leave us alone due to our sizeable military presence, and is allied to LB, you are next, by default.
Beta says:
We had been working on a deal with A-M for awhile. They have been good neighbours and trade partners.
snoopy369 says:
We are a bit concerned that DR hasn't even tried to connect their iron with.
snoopy369 says:
yet*
Beta says:
Understood. I have been trying to contact 1889 of LB, without succcess. He is not as 'connceted' as others - but I am worried somewhat.
snoopy369 says:
It doesn't make sense ...
Beta says:
I see what you mean.
snoopy369 says:
how do you play Persia without bothering to make immortals?
Beta says:
btw - did you take their settler??
snoopy369 says:
And how do you play a DG in these cramped situations
snoopy369 says:
No, we have not declared war yet.
snoopy369 says:
That settler settled years ago.
Beta says:
k
snoopy369 says:
We are now on their border; we are deciding as to when to declare, probably putting it off a bit.
Beta says:
Yes - this DG is a challenge
snoopy369 says:
Waiting for a swordsman stack may be ... optimal. We are not yet forced to attack, as they haven't connected the iron, nor even tried to.
Beta says:
Can they get it from LB??
snoopy369 says:
They have between 9 and 12 units, depending on how many are warriors.
snoopy369 says:
I don't think they are connected.
snoopy369 says:
And, I don't think LB has two.
Beta says:
k
snoopy369 says:
LB also has an iron-needing UU i believe, so is somewhat unlikely to give it to them
snoopy369 says:
but who knows
snoopy369 says:
but that road could be cut without a war declaration
Beta says:
understood
Beta says:
Ok - let me see if I can make some headway with Paddy and crew.
Beta says:
and btw - the vote at Babylon was to connect the horse city next.
Beta says:
snoopy369 says:
I think you two both should look to the long haul.
snoopy369 says:
Neither of you is going to be able to use a whole lot of the AM land.
Beta says:
That's what I am trying for.
snoopy369 says:
It's not going to be that long of a game.
Beta says:
Agreed.
Beta says:
But it is more of an atttude thing.
snoopy369 says:
Our main concern, is that you all seem to be ... slow to get involved in the DR war.
snoopy369 says:
Oh, sure.
snoopy369 says:
I understand that.
snoopy369 says:
We need to know when you are going to get involved, and how much.
snoopy369 says:
And if you don't want to at all - fine, but we should know.
snoopy369 says:
I understand you are running this team as a real democracy, or something like that, but some committments are necessary.
Beta says:
We could get involved now - with Bowmen. But you can understand why we do not want to do that.
snoopy369 says:
Oh sure. I care not, to be honest, what you decide to get involved *with*. I just need a time and a number.
Beta says:
So - after the chat - we agreed to proceed along the lines of preparing for the campaign.
snoopy369 says:
Involvement at all will suit our purposes, splitting DR.
Beta says:
But in all honesty - that means building a city, connecting horses, and building horsemen.
snoopy369 says:
We understand that.
snoopy369 says:
Just give me a time
Beta says:
We were a peaceful rexxing civ up until then.
snoopy369 says:
or tell me a rough time ,and when you can have a time exact ...
Beta says:
I'm working on it.
snoopy369 says:
:t
Beta says:
Gotta go. Sandman calleth.
snoopy369 says:
ahh ok
Beta says:
talk to you soon.
snoopy369 says:
but please work ... soon, on a time. It is a top priority for us, to know when - and if - we can rely on you folks ...
snoopy369 says:
Good night
Beta says:
Ok good night, snoop!
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Kloreep
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of the pillow
Jun 2002
time: 00:34
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quote:
Heya ...
We're currently considering an interesting trade with you. See, we want chivalry, quickly, given how much it would help our cause. You have something that we don't - a free tech coming in a bit.
We are considering offering you, once we obtain them (in the near future, maybe 8 turns), all of the remaining techs you need to advance to the next era, in exchange for:
Your free tech, only, if it is Monotheism or Feudalism;
Your free tech, if Engineering, plus a guaranteed one-for-one trade (at our sole option) of our-researched Feudalism for your-researched Monotheism, and a promise that you will research said tech immediately, and at the highest rate you can do so without losing money (or something close to that - specific details can come later). We would also consider funding a small deficit if it helps in turns a lot.
We're not 100% agreed on this, so I'm not offering this as a done deal if you take it - but I think it will be approved, just need to make sure certain people like it. 
Some of the terms may be negotiable, though there's not a whole lot to negotiate there. At the moment it looks like we'll be giving you 4 techs in exchange for your free, although you undoubtedly will be getting one of those four yourself soon? (You would have the opportunity of course to go to 0% science for a few turns, unless you're researching republic, given you'd be getting the tech you're currently on.)
Please let us know if this is something you folk would consider.
Thanks - Snoopy the Bard |
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skrobism
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This is the Way Of Inanna, and our glorious Babylonian kingdon. I have no problems taking gold in exchange for research. We gain technologies, our allies gain technologies.
The TNA should also look at this scientific contibution as being just as important as a full military action against DR on our part.
Does this open the door for us to officially stay out of the DR war while still supporting TNA with science?
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skrobism
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BTW - next time do not edit the transcript. It was hard to follow. Maybe it's me but there were answers without questions. The whole transcript would flow better.
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planet
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A nice deal.
quote:
Originally posted by skrobism
BTW - next time do not edit the transcript. It was hard to follow. Maybe it's me but there were answers without questions. The whole transcript would flow better. |
What was taken out?
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skrobism
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If they want the free tech it needs to come at a price. I am in favor of Babylonian knowledge bringing enlightenment to the world, but we need to profit from that.
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Kloreep
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of the pillow
Jun 2002
time: 00:34
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quote:
We and our various allies have decided that the deal, as we proposed, is a good one and we would like to do it, if you are still agreeable.
Just to make sure we mutually recall it correctly:
We give you Constr and Currency, to bring you into the next age (This is what you are lacking for next age, right?).
You give us your free tech.
If it is Engineering, we will work jointly to achieve in a reasonably short time Feudalism and Monotheism and trade it mutually (as is). Probably you should research Monotheism, as you are slightly faster than we.
We will have these techs completed in 3 turns at the latest, according to my understanding from McM etc. At that point we will send the two techs - accepted to you. You will then immediately turn around and send us-accepted your free tech that same turn.
Of course, if you do get mono/feudalism, we will still happily work on other trades with you We simply want to make sure we get chivalry reasonably soon, to help us against DR.
Thanks,
Snoopy369 |
Construction + Currency would be an even deal for us tech-point wise. Slightly in our favor, even, if we end up getting Feudalism. But don't they want Monarchy? And why would they be trading Currency to us and not BOH? That would make BOH pay us pretty much in gold alone for our free tech.
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skrobism
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It's not strange. They want Chiv. DR want Chiv for that Army that E_T mentioned in the AM-Vassel thread.
"to help us against DR" - of course.
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skrobism
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"We and our various allies..."
Who are these various allies? I thought this was a TNA. Is it LB? AM? BOH is named. Is it DR?
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skrobism
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Just as we have questions about BOH, there are unresolved questions with Euphorica. When is the last time we have heard from them?
Last edited by skrobism on 27-06-2005 at 01:40
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Kloreep
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of the pillow
Jun 2002
time: 00:34
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Re-reading their last message, it seems Euphorica is proposing this on behalf of themselves and BoH. This being the case, we should get gold. (We should probably also CC BOH?)
We are giving them each our free tech, either 32 or 36 tech points. BOH told us they were the ones to do Currency (16) while Euphorica was on Construction (20), so Euphorica has a bit more to give us.
Will they agree to NTAs? If so, we could give them a break on gold. Say, 1/5 of the actual beaker difference? That would be 5 gold per tech point.
BOH has a 16/20 difference depending on Feud/Other. So 80/100 gold under a NTA?
Euphorica has a 12/16 difference depending on Feud/Other. So 60/80 gold under a NTA?
Edit: I am, of course, assuming that we're regarding this tech as any other. I don't see what else we could do that is fair to us. As I see it, we took a slight hit on research with Monarchy anyway, unless Euphorica does want to buy it after all.
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05-04-2005 10:19
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