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Flubber
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With a view of the Rockies
Aug 2000
time: 22:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Gremnon
There might not be any magic unit, but when it comes to defending bases, I find I use several units, with different abilities to help.
Normally two arty, one of each native, two standard land and if it's a sea base two standard sea and a transport.
I find that normally works for me. It costs a lot to maintain, but if you get high support or minerals in it shouldn't be a problem. |
My comments about survivability of units were always about UNITS in the open. It is not very hard to have good survivability of units in a base ( again with tech parity)
That said, thats an awful lot of defenders except when in an active war. My typical base might have one conventional defender and many in my interior will have a really old unit. At the front, I will have 2-3 defenders and 2-3 probe teams plus whatever offensive units are available
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Flubber
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With a view of the Rockies
Aug 2000
time: 22:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Sikander
Drop Artillery can really ruin your day if you've invested a lot on native units for instance. And unfortunately, natives aren't cheap. One of the reasons that I dislike the self-destruct tactic is that it discounts some of the elegance of the rock-paper-scissors system. What you end up with is largely a battle of offensive units with little regard to types or terrain or position, where your only defense is to have destroyed the enemy last turn. |
I agree. It takes away any the defensibility of pretty much any stack you can consider and in fact makes stacking units pretty useless
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Gremnon
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You have a point about the large amount of defenders, but if I know I'm going to lose a base I'll relocate them to another base, support them from there and use them in an offensive against whiever takes the base.
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Flubber
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With a view of the Rockies
Aug 2000
time: 22:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Gremnon
You have a point about the large amount of defenders, but if I know I'm going to lose a base I'll relocate them to another base, support them from there and use them in an offensive against whiever takes the base. |
THis hints that your units may have both good armour and good weapons? Do you design units that way as I confess that my units generally have best weapon or best armour but rarely both. But I view units as expendable and as I say , I don't keep many sitting around
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Commy
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St. Louis, MO, USA
Mar 2004
time: 05:17
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Generally, I put clean reactor on all units...then I use a series of combinations...each base usually has about 3-5 garrisons...except those with SPs, the get 7-10
Hypnotic trance units are built first...
Then comes artillery...
Then comm jammers...
Then interceptors
Then AAA...
Finally, I'll build empath units...this may seem a little late, but my terraforming strategy, strangely, doesn't have that many pops once I get tree farms and hybrid forests....
If the base has SPs, I generally will put a few extra AAA and hypnotic trance units...
My crappy units, the ones that have clean reactor but really suck, I don't disband because, well, they have clean reactor...if I don't upgrade them, I make the designated defender since collateral damage doesn't apply to bases...
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Flubber
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With a view of the Rockies
Aug 2000
time: 22:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Commy
Generally, I put clean reactor on all units...then I use a series of combinations...each base usually has about 3-5 garrisons...except those with SPs, the get 7-10
Hypnotic trance units are built first...
Then comes artillery...
Then comm jammers...
Then interceptors
Then AAA...
Finally, I'll build empath units...this may seem a little late, but my terraforming strategy, strangely, doesn't have that many pops once I get tree farms and hybrid forests....
If the base has SPs, I generally will put a few extra AAA and hypnotic trance units...
My crappy units, the ones that have clean reactor but really suck, I don't disband because, well, they have clean reactor...if I don't upgrade them, I make the designated defender since collateral damage doesn't apply to bases... |
Wow -- my typical base has 1-2 garrisons with an offensive rover every few bases for wormkilling. Only bases in a hotly contested frontier would have more ( If I am the Hive I will have more simply for the support reasons)
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Flubber
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With a view of the Rockies
Aug 2000
time: 22:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger
If you are a green faction running Green, there's a very good possibility of capturing wild worms, and they are free as long as they are in fungal squares at the start of your turn (or being independent).
They can also hide in fungal squares, making them hard to spot.
Also, IoD are the best pod popping units. |
I agree totally with all of that. In fact, I will go further and say you WILL capture worms. They also have the benefit of being the most mobile explorer in the early game. I love early worms. But as the game goes on they become coparitively weaker as enemies have empath and trance and arty and 3r armour. Their only redeeming late game feature is that they ignore reactor strength. I still love the free worms but rarely find occasion to build very many of them
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Nabvrimn
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Build worms? Why would you want to build worms? They're useless without the offensive boosts from a positive planet rating. Find a big stretch of fungus in nobodys territory and farm worms. After you've got a few send your empath rover or whatever you're using as a farmer home and let the worms farm worms. Free money and free worms with no upkeep costs.
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Ka Plewy
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quote:
Originally posted by binTravkin
You can't farm worms forever buddy.
You have only a dozen or so (depends on Planet rating) of slots for free worms.
If you approach the limit, the possibility to capture worms decreases slightly.
So if you want a worm in each one of your 30+ bases you'll need to build em. |
He didn't say he was farming to get just free worms, but also to generate cash. As Dee and the Hive, this is about the only way they can generate decent money.
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Senethro
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quote:
Originally posted by binTravkin
You can't farm worms forever buddy.
You have only a dozen or so (depends on Planet rating) of slots for free worms.
If you approach the limit, the possibility to capture worms decreases slightly.
So if you want a worm in each one of your 30+ bases you'll need to build em. |
Whats this? CAn you only capture a certain number of worms per planet rating?
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Flubber
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With a view of the Rockies
Aug 2000
time: 22:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Senethro
Whats this? CAn you only capture a certain number of worms per planet rating? |
There is no absolute limit that I have ascertained absolutely BUT with a + 3 PLanet rating I have observed that the chance of capturing a worm goes down as the number of worms you have increases. I have previosuly put forth a possible rough and inaccurate formula of something like
Chance of capture = 25% * PLANET RATING MINUS ( 10% * number of captured natives in your army)
I know this is wrong since I have captured natives even with 8 captured natives in my army ( its probably more a curve than a straight line). I don't know that the chance of capture ever gets to zero but once you have 10 natives or so chances seem to get real slim.
Because of this, I will sometimes return some natives to the wild to be killed fo cash in order to hopefully capture some in a more useful part of the world.
Try it out . Once you have 4-5 captured natives, there is NO WAY that your chance of capture remains at 75%.
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Flubber
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With a view of the Rockies
Aug 2000
time: 22:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Nabvrimn
Build worms? Why would you want to build worms? They're useless without the offensive boosts from a positive planet rating. Find a big stretch of fungus in nobodys territory and farm worms. After you've got a few send your empath rover or whatever you're using as a farmer home and let the worms farm worms. Free money and free worms with no upkeep costs. |
Well if you are the UNI running FM, its sort of hard to farm worms.(unless you switch for a bit and farm intensively to creat such an army)
Why build them??
1. Immune to gas so your pop stays the same even if the native dies to the gas unit
2.Immune to reactor effects say if someone beats you to fusion
3. Wild Worms do not seem to attack your worms so a worm can be great for holding back that mass in the fungal pop by ZOC. Note that IODs will attack and Spore launchers will attack but it seems that you can sit a worm next to wild worms. very useful when in FM when you need time to concentrate your arty to make the kill easier
4. Unbribable and just as good as anything else when alone in the open ( and by that I mean not that great) and the best land unit for a long while in fungus.
5. Mixed force (in PBEM)-- If you build them and then hide them, its just one more threat an opponent has to think about
I have mixed feelings about worms and in many of my games, none of these uses arises. To be honest the most I would build them now is when I have a high mineral base that can kick them out one per turn
Those are the uses I see.
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Ka Plewy
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I'll take a whack at it. I just finished a refresher course in calculus and statistics.
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Commy
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St. Louis, MO, USA
Mar 2004
time: 05:17
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Okay, I'll try to display the results as nice as I can...
I lost the paper that had the actual number, but I did graph it by rounding the value to the nearest ten, and then dividing by ten...
So for example, a distance of 1 (which is impossible, because it the square directly by the HQ) has a base cost of about 240 (I think 242)...at 2 square away, the price drops down to 200 (I think it was 201)...3 squares away, about 170...4 squares, 150.
Remember, these are all approximates...I do remember for a fact that at distance 12, the cost is exactly 75...
These values are the base costs...population becomes a multiplier, so if it costs 200 at population one, it will cost 400 at pop 2 and 600 at pop 3...children creches half the distance used the equation, and genejack's double it...
As you can tell if you graph these values, the equation certainly isn't linear...
Here's the problem I have...if the X axis represents distance, and the Y axis represents cost...instead of sloping up as X increases, it slopes down...
I have only three guesses for the equation...eiter A) the opposite of the X values is used (basically, a distance of 6 would make x=-6) which seems the most likely, or B) the equation is part of an oval, which have very little experience with...the third guess would be that it is none of these and that some much better math person can solve this, as it is annoying me...everything else in probe cost can be determined by trial and error...
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Ka Plewy
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quote:
Originally posted by Commy
Okay, I'll try to display the results as nice as I can...
I lost the paper that had the actual number, but I did graph it by rounding the value to the nearest ten, and then dividing by ten...
So for example, a distance of 1 (which is impossible, because it the square directly by the HQ) has a base cost of about 240 (I think 242)...at 2 square away, the price drops down to 200 (I think it was 201)...3 squares away, about 170...4 squares, 150.
Remember, these are all approximates...I do remember for a fact that at distance 12, the cost is exactly 75...
These values are the base costs...population becomes a multiplier, so if it costs 200 at population one, it will cost 400 at pop 2 and 600 at pop 3...children creches half the distance used the equation, and genejack's double it...
As you can tell if you graph these values, the equation certainly isn't linear...
Here's the problem I have...if the X axis represents distance, and the Y axis represents cost...instead of sloping up as X increases, it slopes down...
I have only three guesses for the equation...eiter A) the opposite of the X values is used (basically, a distance of 6 would make x=-6) which seems the most likely, or B) the equation is part of an oval, which have very little experience with...the third guess would be that it is none of these and that some much better math person can solve this, as it is annoying me...everything else in probe cost can be determined by trial and error... |
I guess I was under the impression I'd get a set of raw data to work with. Unfortunately, what's presented isn't enough raw data, and has too many I think's in it to make a reliable model. I'm still interested if you find that sheet of raw data.
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17-05-2005 16:52
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