21-04-2005 05:29									#1
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for computer science.

The results of the annual ACM programming competition.

1,582 universities from 71 countries on six continents compete.

http://icpc.baylor.edu/icpc/Finals/Standings.html

The top US school is in 17th...

The University of Waterloo placed 4th, University of Calgary placed 31st. University of Alberta was 29. CalTech was 33, MIT was 60th. The highest ranked American university was the University of Illinois at 17.

The University of Toronto, Queens, Western, etc. didn't make it to the finals. I don't know when they were eliminated.

C|Net has an article about how American universities are dropping in rank consistently every year, and what it might mean for the industry: http://news.com.com/Can+Johnny+stil...tml?tag=nefd.ac

For completeness, Gold Medals:
1) Shanghai Jiaotong University, China
2) Moscow State University, Russia
3) St Petersburg Institute of Fine Mechanics and Optics, Russia
4) University of Waterloo, Canada

Silver medals:
5) University of Wroclaw, Poland
6) Fudan University, China
7) KTH - Royal Institute of Technology, Sweden
8) Norwegian University of Science & Technology, Norway

Bronze medals:
9) Izhevsk State Technical University, Russia
10) POLITEHNICA University Bucharest, Hungary
11) Peking University, China
12) The University of Hong Kong, China

As you can see, the University of Toronto and University of Chicago are obviously inferior universities.

	21-04-2005 05:31									#2
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I'd bet a lot of money that CMU is way better than any Canadian school for CS. And why the hell are you talking about U Chicago? It's not like it's supposed to have some awesome CS program or anything.

	21-04-2005 05:33									#3
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ACM = Association of Communists, Maoists ?

	21-04-2005 05:34									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker I'd bet a lot of money that CMU is way better than any Canadian school for CS. And why the hell are you talking about U Chicago? It's not like it's supposed to have some awesome CS program or anything.

Carnegie Mellon?

They were in 55th place this year.

I mentioned UChicago and UToronto for personal reasons.

University of Waterloo is where it's at in the West if you want a great CS/engineering school. Both IBM and Microsoft (the two largest software companies) hire more graduates from Waterloo than any other single instutition in the world.

Most of the younger employees at the IBM Lab I work at are from Waterloo, University of Calgary, or University of Alberta -- with the odd UofT student thrown in (local boys).

	21-04-2005 05:35									#5
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Why isn't the University of Idaho listed?

	21-04-2005 05:36									#6
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HTF do you do a programming contest?

	21-04-2005 05:37									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Carnegie Mellon? They were in 55th place this year.

So what?

	21-04-2005 05:37									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Asher As you can see, the University of Toronto ... are obviously inferior universities.

I do not dispute that Waterloo is better than Toronto as far as Computer Science is concerned. If I had been in a different fiscal position, I would have gone to Waterloo instead. They did accept me, after all.

Unfortunately, it's all water under the bridge now.

	21-04-2005 05:38									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Oncle Boris HTF do you do a programming contest?

Extremely complex problems, time how fast they can code a solution. It's not a technical "programming" contest as much as it is a problem-solving contest.

The winner solves the most problems in the shortest amount of time.

	21-04-2005 05:39									#10
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quote: For completeness, Gold Medals: 1) Shanghai Jiaotong University, China 2) Moscow State University, Russia 3) St Petersburg Institute of Fine Mechanics and Optics, Russia 4) University of Waterloo, Canada Silver medals: 5) University of Wroclaw, Poland 6) Fudan University, China 7) KTH - Royal Institute of Technology, Sweden 8) Norwegian University of Science & Technology, Norway Bronze medals: 9) Izhevsk State Technical University, Russia 10) POLITEHNICA University Bucharest, Hungary 11) Peking University, China 12) The University of Hong Kong, China

Not one respectable institute of higher learning among them.

I guess that computer science must not be a serious academic subject.

	21-04-2005 05:39									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker So what?

So their best students are obviously not as good as everyone else's.

Carnegie Mellon is an important university to CompSci history, it's just kinda...stalled. You're more likely to hear about it in a CS history course than a modern CS course talking about the latest cutting-edge research.

	21-04-2005 05:41									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon Not one respectable institute of higher learning among them. I guess that computer science must not be a serious academic subject.

Computer Science is a rigourous academic subject, ones that Philosophers have been failing out of for decades.

It just also requires the funding it deserves, moreso than artsy courses. University without proper funding do not attract the best researchers (professors), which then does not attract the best students.

UofA and UofC place well because King Ralphy is throwing money at what he calls the "ICT" programs at the schools, giving them ample budget to compete and draw talent, which then draws students.

	21-04-2005 05:45									#13
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Are the rankings consistent from year to year?

	21-04-2005 05:46									#14
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quote: Computer Science is a rigourous academic subject, ones that Philosophers have been failing out of for decades

Oh rubbish.

It's playing with toys and involves very little original or creative thought. Well it involves what computer scientists would call creative or original thought -- but it bores the hell out of everyone else.

If a contest doesn't include the usual suspects, it's a sign it's a poor contest or one not worth worrying about. It's as if Albania had won the World Cup.

	21-04-2005 05:47									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Oncle Boris Are the rankings consistent from year to year?

Yup, more or less.

	21-04-2005 05:47									#16
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quote: Not one respectable institute of higher learning among them. I guess that computer science must not be a serious academic subject.

Is Moscow State University really that bad?

	21-04-2005 05:48									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon Oh rubbish. It's playing with toys and involves very little original or creative thought.

This is why Carly drove HP into the ground, and it's why philosophers are irrelevant in technology-driven society. You just don't understand the world around you.

quote: If a contest doesn't include the usual suspects, it's a sign it's a poor contest or one not worth worrying about. It's as if Albania had won the World Cup.

Say what? Doesn't include the usual suspects? It had 1,582 universities competing...admission is open to anyone who wants it.

All of the usual suspects were competing.

	21-04-2005 05:49									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon If a contest doesn't include the usual suspects, it's a sign it's a poor contest or one not worth worrying about. It's as if Albania had won the World Cup.

Asher has a bigger penis than you.

	21-04-2005 05:50									#19
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Is Asher black?

	21-04-2005 05:51									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Asher All of the usual suspects were competing.

Apart from, as mentioned, almost all of Britain.

	21-04-2005 05:51									#21
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quote: This is why Carly drove HP into the ground, and it's why philosophers are irrelevant in technology-driven society. You just don't understand the world around you.

I don't understand. Someone has to do something worthwhile with the gadgets you make.

Society is structured so that dullards can do the peon work, like writing computer programs. It frees up other people to do intrinsically worthwhile things.

I doubt real colleges took the thing seriously. CS is a polytech subject, not really an academic subject. You can get a degree in CS without any original thought.

	21-04-2005 05:53									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon You can get a degree in CS without any original thought.

I'm sure it's quite possible to make fun of Asher without lying, Agathon.

	21-04-2005 05:54									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon I doubt real colleges took the thing seriously. CS is a polytech subject, not really an academic subject. You can get a degree in CS without any original thought.

Don't feed him the ammo with a silver spoon, it's not like you need that much original thought to graduate in philosophy neither.

	21-04-2005 05:56									#24
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What are supposed to do with a philosophy major anyways?

	21-04-2005 05:57									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon I don't understand.

Yes, that much is painfully obvious.

quote: I doubt real colleges took the thing seriously. CS is a polytech subject, not really an academic subject.

If "real colleges" don't take CS seriously, that's their own fault. CS is a growing a necessary, and very academic subject that is misunderstood by the simpletons that would rather discuss Artistotle's sexuality than anything of importance.

	21-04-2005 06:00									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon quote: This is why Carly drove HP into the ground, and it's why philosophers are irrelevant in technology-driven society. You just don't understand the world around you. I don't understand. Someone has to do something worthwhile with the gadgets you make. Society is structured so that dullards can do the peon work, like writing computer programs. It frees up other people to do intrinsically worthwhile things.

Like philosophy? Yeah, that'll feed the starving millions I'm sure

Computer programming is a very good cerebral activity, it would be nice to pick it back up at some point...the last time I programmed was on a BBC micro...I could do BBC BASIC assembler on the 6502/65C12 although it is all a bit rusty now

	21-04-2005 06:02									#27
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quote: 10) POLITEHNICA University Bucharest, Hungary

*cough*

	21-04-2005 06:02									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Asher So their best students are obviously not as good as everyone else's.

Or don't participate. I know a number of math competitions on which my school does not rank well because it doesn't emphasize them - but on most it completely owns.

	21-04-2005 06:03									#29
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Let the pissing contest begin!

	21-04-2005 06:04									#30
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Agathon: Since Computer Science requires little to no original thought and is apparently so easy, why don't you complete all of the problem sets from the 2003 Final in 5 hours, as they are required to do in the contest:

http://icpc.baylor.edu/Past/icpc200...ls/problems.pdf