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chegitz guevara
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Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Oerdin
Facism is a one party state where private ownership is encouraged but where everything is designed to promote and support the needs of the state. That's different from regulat capitalism or the statism of communism. |
No, facsism is something very specific and different than any other nasty political dicatorship. Fascism begins as a movement of the enraged middle classes and declassé workers, like students, the unemployed, former soldiers, etc., people who are angry with how things are going in society.
At the same time, there needs to be a powerful workers movement. It needs to be powerful enough to make demands on the capitalist class and get them, but not conscious enough to move forward to revolution. Fascism has been described as the worker's punishment for failing to make the revolution.
Because of the power of the workers, a crisis of falling profits is created in capitalism. The capitalists have no way to deal with this crisis but to represses the wroerks, but the state is paralyzed and unable to take up the task. The capitalists find their means in the hands of the fascsists.
Fascism always starts out as a way of beating the workers down, of putting them back in their place, busting their unions, smashing their organizations, killing their leaders. The capitalists turn the state over to the fascists in order to crush the lower classes, to regain control of the economy.
Far from regulating everything in sight, the economy becomes even more anarchic, with greater power for the capitalists. The state doesn't tell the capitalists what to do, the capitalists tell the state what to do. And the state jumps to it. Hitler was not the master of Germany. He was the lapdog of Krupps and I.G. Farben, and G.E. When they said jump, Hitler said, how many people do you need to jump and how high? The state begins giving fat contracts to the major corporations. In the case of the Nazis, they even provided them with slave laborers and then went on a spree of conquest to provide them with new markets.
Few people understand the power that capitalist had in Nazi Germany. Schindler, a factory owner and minor member of the Nazi party, was able to storm into Auschwitz and demand the release of his workers. He was ordering around SS comanders. And they did what he said.
When the United States went to war with Germany, U.S. companies in Germany were not nationalized. They weren't seized. They had Germany managers replace the American ones, who had to leave, and the profits from the operation of the company were put in an escrow account that the companies were able to collect after the war. GM and Ford made a profit off their German companies which were manufacturing weapons to fight the U.S. The U.S. even had to pay damages to GM for damaging the factory by aerial bombing.
None of this is the case in China. The China government has no respect for private property. The capitalists have nothing close to poltical power. If the CCP decides to shut them down, they are **** out of luck. They have no poltical power in China.
Furthermore, the capitalists are booming. They are making profits hand over fist. There is no crisis of profit. There is no workers movement getting in their way. The workers of China are repressed and compliant, and have alway been. They don't need to be smashed.
The problem is you are confusing the form for the essence. Just cuz Rupaul looks like a woman and acts like a woman doesn't mean he is a woman. Just because the Chinese dictatorship is nasty, ferocious, nationalistic, and promoting capitalism doesn't mean it's anything close to Italian or German fascism. Putin's Russia is much closer to fascism that the CCP.
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Imran Siddiqui
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The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:35
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quote:
Hitler was not the master of Germany. He was the lapdog of Krupps and I.G. Farben, and G.E. When they said jump, Hitler said, how many people do you need to jump and how high? The state begins giving fat contracts to the major corporations. In the case of the Nazis, they even provided them with slave laborers and then went on a spree of conquest to provide them with new markets. |
You keep parroting this line (probably to make capitalists look bad), but it just isn't true. The Nazi party had great control over the economy. Nazi party members were given promotions in the companies and were the ones that got the contracts. The Nazis told the weapons manufacturers what to make and when. The reason Schindler was able to get Jews out of Auschwitz was because there was a war and he was making munitions for that war. Of course the SS were going to let some Jews go to the Nazi party member to make shells for the front lines. Duh! That isn't the capitalists controling the Nazis, that's the Nazis bending the rules for more munitions. Schindler, just barely, on a few occasions avoided getting sent to Auschwitz himself. He was twice arrested for conspiracy, but avoided jail... mostly like by bribes, which was the other way he got away with stuff. Schindler passed out a TON of bribes to government officials. If Schindler hadn't paid off officials, he would have been investigated and jailed. Hardly the Nazi party bending to the will of the capitalists.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism
quote:
In an economic sense, Nazism and Fascism are related. Nazism shares many economic features with Fascism, featuring complete government control of finance and investment (allocation of credit), industry, and agriculture. Yet in both of these systems, corporate power and market based systems for providing price information still existed. |
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Imran Siddiqui
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The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:35
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism
quote:
There were several strains of tradition influencing Mussolini. Sergio Panunzio, a major theoretician of fascism in the 1920s, had a syndicalist background, but his influence waned as the movement shed its old left wing elements. The fascist concept of corporatism and particularly its theories of class collaboration and economic and social relations are very similar to the model laid out by Pope Leo XIII's 1892 encyclical Rerum Novarum. This encyclical addressed politics as it had been transformed by the Industrial Revolution, and other changes in society that had occurred during the nineteenth century. The document criticized capitalism, complaining of the exploitation of the masses in industry. However, it also sharply criticized the socialist concept of class struggle, and the proposed socialist solution to exploitation (the elimination, or at least the limitation, of private property). Rerum Novarum called for strong governments to undertake a mission to protect their people from exploitation, while continuing to uphold private property and reject socialism. It also asked Catholics to apply principles of social justice in their own lives. |
quote:
While failing to outline a coherent program, fascism evolved into a new political and economic system that combined corporatism, totalitarianism, nationalism, and anti-Communism in a state designed to bind all classes together under a capitalist system. This was a new capitalist system, however, one in which the state seized control of the organization of vital industries. Under the banners of nationalism and state power, Fascism seemed to synthesize the glorious Roman past with a futuristic utopia. |
quote:
Trade unions and employers' associations were reorganized by 1934 into 22 fascist corporations combining workers and employers by economic sector, whose representatives in 1938 replaced the parliament as the "Chamber of Corporations". Power continued to be vested in the Fascist Grand Council, the ruling body of the movement. |
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Frankychan
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In the Kingdom of Hawaii (CPA Member)
Sep 2001
time: 19:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Boshko
You're so full of BS its ridiculous. Since when has the Falung Gong done anything worse than your standard BS phoney faith healings, which is the sort of thing that all religions do.
Che is also really confusing me, especially in his delusions that China is in any way communist. The comparison to the NEP is just surreal, you're getting capitalists joining the CCP by the truckload.
And and don't see why China is any less capable of having a democracy than SKorea, Japan and Taiwan. Those three's democracies certainly aren't pretty but they're sure as hell a lot better than China's current fascist government.
Hmmm and I wonder what's being taught in those Communist Theory classes that the article talked about. What the hell are they teaching? That the best Communist governments don't do anything even vaguely Communist  |
Ok, while I'll admit that the Falun Gong isn't in comparison to the Aum Shin cult. I don't really know what's up with the FG. Aum was preaching happiness and all that good stuff, so I don't know if the Gong are doing similar stuff.
Honestly, I don't believe China can have the same idea of democracy as China. Come on, S. Korea is so heavily influenced by America it's ridiculous. China is waaaaaay more independent than Korea was/is. Look at it's history. Korea had it's own monarchy, but paid tribute to China just cause it acknowledged that China influenced them.
The Korean War? American intervention. S. Korea STILL is a pseudo-American military base. Just like Japan. I want Japan to become independent of America just cause if something does happen, at least we (America) don't necessarily have to get involved. I hope Japan re-arms itself for defensive purposes.
But going back to the original subject. Look, China and it's history is older than America and Europe. Sorry gang, that's the truth. Therefore, I think we should at least try to understand them before we make prejudgments. And don't get me wrong, I'm loyal to America....but to just say 'China is Evil' is stupid.
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25-04-2005 07:24
How dare they 
. Read some of the Fascist's writings, especially Mussolini, who was the first Fascist leader. And then read historians' views on the economy of Fascist Italy first of all.
Are you denying that Taiwan is a democracy now ?
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