16-05-2005 20:55									#31
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You both have a point, Curt and Steph. Events in ToT should, ideally, be able to handle the diplomacy of the 1930's (though I may need some advice with that on specific issues). I do still need the above unit graphics (I'm sorry, Erika, but your graphics are a bit dated for ToT. Thanks, anyway), so if anyone would like to get me at least some of them, I'd be most obliged. I also think I'll need a good WW2 German, Italian, British, French, and European neutral city styles (I think I saw some from Curt before the crash), I already have good US and Soviet ones from 'Empire of the Rising Sun.' If someone could help me with these, I'd be in your debt. Thanks in advance!

	16-05-2005 21:16									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Patine (I'm sorry, Erika, but your graphics are a bit dated for ToT. Thanks, anyway),

well, i'm just giving you an example, i can probably dig up the ToT versions and give the others nice ToT paint jobs,

	16-05-2005 21:50									#33
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double post, tried to edit my post and it submitted a new one instead

	16-05-2005 22:14									#34
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Is this better?

Attachment: ww2meart.png
This has been downloaded 145 time(s).

	16-05-2005 22:57									#35
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grrrr...... you've posted a png. If Patine is using MSIE andright clicks and saves this, then he will get a 10-12% darker version than the original. And while I'm ranting, wasn't there something posted about letting the originator post his own graphics?

	16-05-2005 23:31									#36
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have it start in 1919.

	16-05-2005 23:45									#37
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If it starts in 1933, maybe you could inlude the Spanish Civil war somehow. It should be important for the German player to help the nationalists win.

	17-05-2005 00:34									#38
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quote: Originally posted by fairline grrrr...... you've posted a png. If Patine is using MSIE andright clicks and saves this, then he will get a 10-12% darker version than the original. And while I'm ranting, wasn't there something posted about letting the originator post his own graphics?

*whack* (slams her head into desk)
sorry, i have to dig myself out of this hole now,
wasn't there a utility to fix png files?
if you are going to have the spanish civil war in there, then the spanish republicans can be represented by the barbarian civ,
I'll delete the attachment from that post, if you want me to,

	17-05-2005 00:46									#39
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@fairline: Can you fix the file so it's not png? I like some of the units on it (many are yours, aren't they?).

@Ecthelion: That's a bit too early, methinks.

@Arthedain: I agree. I'd certainly fit in the Spanish Civil War in that case.

@Erika: Barbarian Republicans might be a good idea, actually.

	17-05-2005 01:07									#40
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So you plan to include the Spanish Civil War in the game then? Does this mean the game will begin when the war began in the summer of 1936? Or will the game begin before this and give the Germans even more time to shore up they're forces to commit to helping the Nationalists achieve victory?

	17-05-2005 01:27									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Patine @fairline: Can you fix the file so it's not png? I like some of the units on it (many are yours, aren't they?). @Ecthelion: That's a bit too early, methinks. @Arthedain: I agree. I'd certainly fit in the Spanish Civil War in that case. @Erika: Barbarian Republicans might be a good idea, actually.

i can repost it, some of it, i'm sure that you can get fairline's ww2 ToT units files elsewhere, the panthers and tigers are from catfish's 24bit 20th century unit collection, i think it can be found on his site,(does anyone have a link?) the rest are from various single unit gifs i have lying around in my units folder,

	17-05-2005 02:23									#42
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The solution to PNG problems with IE (I think):

There's a graphics viewer program called Irfanview you can get here:

http://www.irfanview.com/

There is a plugin version of 'pngout' for irfanview which allows adjustment of png files here:

http://advsys.net/ken/utils.htm

(search for irfanview if you don't want to use the command line version of pngout. It's the pngout.DLL you want)

follow the instructions for installation of irfanview and the pngout plugin. Fire up Irfanviw and
load up the ToT bmp file you wish to convert to pngout (don't save as a png in your normal gfx program!).

Now select file-save and select PNG in the 'save as type' box. This immediately brings up an options box. Ensure the 'save transparent colour' box is unchecked. Select use Pngout plugin - this brings up another options box from which you select 'RGB' (not RGB + Alpha - it's the alpha channel that causes the problem I think.

Let's give it a try:

Attachment: fairline tot ww2 pngout2.png
This has been downloaded 127 time(s).

Last edited by fairline on 17-05-2005 at 02:38

	17-05-2005 02:26									#43
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Seems to have worked OK. The Spit and Hurricane and new brit infantry are off-limits BTW

	17-05-2005 02:45									#44
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...and the Russian tanks you wanted Patine:

Attachment: fairline russian tanks tot pngout.png
This has been downloaded 129 time(s).

	17-05-2005 02:57									#45
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Thanks a lot, fairline! Don't worry about the Spitfire and Hurricane, I've got older ones of those you posted for ToT before the crash. BTW, which Brit infantry is the 'newer' one you're referring to? I think all but one are on the pre-crash collection I just referred to; I'll give it a check. These units do look great!

	17-05-2005 06:29									#46
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Well Patrick it seems you will have no shortage of excellent units from which to choose from. Do you have a rough idea of just what units you'd want to include in this scenario?

	17-05-2005 11:48									#47
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I plan to use mostly the ones I listed above, plus some I'd already attached to the units file above. I think I'll have two units files; one, for '33 to '40, with things like Polish infantry and cavalry, Danish and Norweigan infantry, Rhineland - Austrian - Czech - Danzig garrison (and very weak unit acting only to hold cities Germany bloodlessly annexed), and the PZL P-7. These will be replaced by late war tanks and planes in the second one, under the theory they'll be eliminated from play by then. Actually, if you could get some of the infantry (Polish, Romanian, Low Countries, Italian, Danish, and Norweigan), cavalry (Polish and Soviet Cossack), and that 'anschlussed' garrison units I need (you're a good infantry and cavalry man, aren't you Chris?), I'd be much obliged. Just use the 'Demilitarized' flag you made for me for that annexed garrison's shield. Thank!

	17-05-2005 11:56									#48
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Sorry about threadjacking a bit: Gareth

Now back to the topic: I was playing around with the graphics set offered by Civ II and I wanted to include borders to a map of Europe (WW2). Basically I implemented the system Kobayashi used in his fabolous Rape of Nations scenario: Rivers as national borders.

I know, I know, this is only some minor feature - but I think it is fine to show how much lands you grabbed as time passes on.

Anyway, the way I did it was making the rivers the border, using a one-tile terrain slot as forest graphic (I did that because from that distance it sure is about equal if you have forest graphics hanging together or not ...) and used the forest slot to add river terrains. Using this "technique" you can have both, borders and rivers.

Attached is a screenie what it looks like - in the map editor

Attachment: blergh.jpg
This has been downloaded 113 time(s).

	17-05-2005 16:40									#49
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I always loved that feuture in RON. Hope to see it here as well.

	17-05-2005 17:18									#50
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Oh, btw, ToT allows you to create impassable terrain - hence the blanked out coutries Sweden and Switzerland; this could save up a civ

	17-05-2005 17:22									#51
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Steph, could you please make me such a map, with forest/river borders and, say, glacier neutrals (Switzerland, Sweden, Ireland, Portugal, Persia, and Afghanistan). I'd be most grateful.

	17-05-2005 18:08									#52
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What map? Only Europe? Give me that map and I will do what you asked me to do. I only suggest to take a rather big map for otherwise those borders would become too irritating I think.

	17-05-2005 18:22									#53
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Here's what I'm using; it's based on the one you previously gave me, clipped a bit in the west.

Attachment: map3rdreich2.zip
This has been downloaded 3 time(s).

	17-05-2005 19:50									#54
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It has been a little difficult to place all them borders - more or less - properly but here you go, Patrick!

Attached is a zipped file with not only the map but also with the two terrain files - feel free to alter them but leave the following terrains in their respective slots:

* The forest terrain is now the river graphics;

* The borders are represented by the river graphics - theese parts of the terrain2 file and the river mouth section should be taboo;

* The Tundra terrain has been used to add some more different graphics to the frozen regions in the north;

Feel free to alter everything - but always mind the purpose of these three terrain slots!

Oh, something else: The one-slot terrain1-file forest graphic is in the Vanilla Civ2 Glacier slot

One last sidenote: I tried my best to avoid the river mouths to make the border looks crappy - and failed in the following locations due to the (relatively) small scale of the land mass:

* Northern Ireland: place some in-game graphic there to hide it;

* Memel river mouth/East Prussia: the placed city of Königsberg should do the trick here;

* The border between Estonia & Lithuania is also a bit odd-looking, just place some in-game graphic there to hide it;

* The Libanese borders look also a bit crappy due to the shape of the coast, I hope you´ll forgive me;

* Also the Jordanian border looks a little odd I have to confess ...

* I did not include all coutries between Senegal & Liberia - too little space but I assume that border there will do too;

Known flaws:

* Albania is rather small due to the dashed shape of the land mass in southern Dalmatia though I assume that´ll do;

* The borders of the Benelux countries are done the best way the map itself allowed;

* Austria looks awful but there was simply not enough place. And that coming from an Austrian

* Romania & Bulgaria have some kind of crappy borders too - I hope you forgive me

* Andorra, Kuwait, Luxembourg, Belize, etc. are in - sorry, no Vatican State

Well, that´s it I guess. Tell me if you want/need anything else altered!

Cheers, Stephan

Attachment: scenario.zip
This has been downloaded 16 time(s).

	17-05-2005 21:05									#55
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quote: @Arthedain: I agree. I'd certainly fit in the Spanish Civil War in that case. @Erika: Barbarian Republicans might be a good idea, actually.

Actually, I've had this idea on my own for a while. I've even begun working on it (a long time ago) and I also used the barbarians as Republicans. Either way I think you should go for this idea, I've stopped working on my own way back. I'm looking forward to this one, and I reall like the innovative idea with the nation borders. We really need to thank Kobayashi for that one.

	17-05-2005 21:12									#56
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I don't want to be too picky but here are my suggestions:

* Lebanon should belong to the Syrian mandate.
* square 71,45 (Denmark) should be grassland
* Bulgaria could be a little more to the west (the border could go through 81,81 -> 81,82 -> 81,83 -> 82.84 -> 81,85)
* Give Austria more room, the border could be 75,67 -> 75,68 -> 75,56 or maybe even end up on 74,69 (though that would look a bit odd).
* The French colonies don't need borders between them. Or what do you think? Same with the Brittish btw.

	18-05-2005 14:26									#57
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Well, these are too good points to be neglected, Martin

Attached is a slightly updated version of the map I posted above, the same rules as to the map I attached yesterday apply here too.

Edits/Changes:

* Bulgaria is now a bit larger

* Austria resembles now more the shape of the real country, therefore the Italian-Yugoslav-Austrian border zone had to be slightly edited;

* Changed the borders between some colonies in Africa - save those French colonies which were seperated from French West-Africa before, Mauretania (1903), Morocco (1912), of course Algeria and Tunesia; now also the British and Portuguese possessions along the coast in the West are featured - as well as Liberia;

* The border beteen the Anglo-Egypt Sudan and Egypt still exist - Egypt was de iure "independent" since 1922;

* Edited the coast in the Med a bit and got rid of the border between Syria and Lebanon;

I think it is indeed looking better now

Attachment: 3rdreich.zip
This has been downloaded 13 time(s).

	18-05-2005 14:55									#58
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That's great work, Steph! It should be a cool map! Though the terrain1.bmp you gave me was from 'Bitterfrost,' the terrain2.bmp is what I needed. I've considered impassable neutral terrain; it has a good and bad point. Good: it frees up a civ slot. Bad: it implies that Hitler in the player's hands is obliged to show the same honor (or expediency with resources, perhaps) with regard to these nations as he did historically, which may not be desirable. I haven't made a firm decision. Any thoughts?

	18-05-2005 15:24									#59
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Well, I´d go for the following civs (regarding starting date 1933, of course):

Germany
USSR
France
United Kingdom
(United States of America)
Italy
Spain

The 1936 variant would see these civs feature the same civs I guess, starting with the Uprising in Spain I guess.

Any comments?

	18-05-2005 15:30									#60
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Map looks much better now, and I agree totally on the civs.

But one border is still wrong, the Finish-Russian border. The border extended to the lake of Ladoga. Here are the borders before the Winterwar: http://www.algonet.se/~bog/vinterkriget/ANFALL.JPG