14-05-2005 16:26									#1
	Rise of the Third Riech Increase the size of your Attachments

With 'Empire of the Rising Sun' in its finishing stages (only its events, people, a trio of US Navy bombers, and final playtesting are left), I thought I'd start a thread to gather ideas, graphics, comments, criticisms, etc. for its more Western successor. I'd at first thought against it, but Curt's comments on the fertile ground in ToT for WW2 scens inspired me to start a partner to EotRS, this one focusing on Japan's European ally, Germany, as the main focus. Too easy, compared to EotRS, you say? Well, maybe at first. But once the USSR and USA get fully involved, things should be much more challenging. I'm thinking of starting in June 1940, when Germany invaded France and the Low Countries. The goal is to secure as much of Europe as possible and paralyze American ability to interfere. You should play one up on ol' Adolf and take better advantage of jet power, rocketry, U-boats, and initially better armor and troop quality. You must keep the upper hand, for once the tide turns, it likely won't turn back!

So, please give me your input (or tell me this is a stupid idea and why) and any graphics you think might look good. BTW, EotRS should be ready for playtesting in a week or two.

Thanks!

	15-05-2005 01:55									#2
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Just as a teaser, my half-done units.bmp. I started with my EotRS units.bmp, then added some fairline ToT WW2 units I'd found somewhere in a compilation (probably before the crash) and typhoon's French ToT tank, then some (mostly) fairline MGE units, changing their shields to the square flag things that have become the ToT standard (and flipping two infantry to face right). There are a significant number of EotRS units left on the file, but they're pretty obviously that. I know what units I need, but I'll post a list once someone else posts. Here's the units, then.

Attachment: units3rdriech.zip
This has been downloaded 38 time(s).

	15-05-2005 03:30									#3
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I'm curious Patrick, since this is meant as a companion to EORTRS then would the game map not include Asia? Would this be a european based map or a trans-atlantic style map that includes North America, such as the Highway to Hell map?

	15-05-2005 04:09									#4
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Aren't you best getting Rising Sun totally complete before switching to a new WW2 epic?

Always finish what you start!

	15-05-2005 07:03									#5
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@Sarsstock: That is correct. The map would go no further east than Western India and Western Siberia (as the EotRS map hits up to Eastern India and Central Siberia at its Westernmost point) and no further west than the US Eastern Seaboard/Maritime Canada and Eastern Quebec. In fact, the map I'm considering using is below.

@Curt: I'm close to finished the initial first version of EotRS and, other than gathering ideas and graphics and assembling units.bmp, haven't actively started a Third Reich scen properly per se. Have no fear, EotRS will be complete before serious labor is done on this scen; I'm just testing the waters with this thread right now.

Attachment: map3rdreich.zip
This has been downloaded 17 time(s).

	15-05-2005 11:44									#6
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Did you address the issues with the Pacific scenario that Agricola mentioned Patine?

	15-05-2005 15:45									#7
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Rise of the Third Riecher? I'd hate to have a second, must be a pain with 3

	15-05-2005 16:41									#8
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Want to check out this map, comrade?

Attachment: fatherland.zip
This has been downloaded 18 time(s).

	15-05-2005 17:02									#9
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Why do the Russians start in Siberia? Why the English in Canada?

	15-05-2005 18:37									#10
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@fairline: Yes, they've pretty much all been considered and addressed. I've double-checked and found none glaring.

@Steph: I'll look at that one right away.

@Ecthelion: Are you referring to the map Steph or I posted? The one I posted shouldn't have those starting locations.

	15-05-2005 18:55									#11
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I guess he is referring to the map I posted.

These starting locations are rather randomized ...

	15-05-2005 19:10									#12
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Your map looks great, but if I use it, I'm going to cut Western North America with Mercator's Map Utility, as that would bleed into my 'Empire of the Rising Sun' sphere. Otherwise, cool map, there!

	15-05-2005 19:36									#13
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Do as you please, my friend

	15-05-2005 19:43									#14
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Yeah cool map. They don't look randomised though.

	15-05-2005 20:36									#15
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As a beginning, I'll tell you all roughly what I had in mind. The idea would be that you played Germany. You'd also control Finland, Slovakia, Hungary, Romania, and Bulgaria. The scen would start in June '40, so you'd already control Poland, Denmark, and Norway, as well. The other players would be as follows:
-Italy (allied to you)
-USSR
-British Empire (also controls minor Allies)
-France
-USA
-Neutrals
The ultimate goal would be to conquer most of Europe and either neutralize interference from across the Atlantic or, if your powerful enough, invade North America. I plan a wide range of units, and I have many on the above units.bmp. However, I do need the following to complete my file:
-A Low Countries infantry
-A general partisan/resistance
-Italian infantry
-He-111
-Ju-87 Stuka
-Another good German plane not above or on the file (any suggestions?)
-French MS 406
-Soviet Il-2 and Pe-2
-US B-17
-4 Soviet tanks other than the T-34/76 (which I have)
-Italian Caserta tank
-Romanian infantry
-Soviet Cossack cavalry
-Tito's Yugoslavian partisans (barbarian)
If anyone has ideas on my plans, any of the above graphics, or any ideas for changes to the list, please post them; I'd greatly appreciate it. Thanks!

	15-05-2005 20:49									#16
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Could someone explain to me what we need another wwii scenario for?

	15-05-2005 21:14									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Ecthelion Could someone explain to me what we need another wwii scenario for?

'cause we like making them,

	15-05-2005 21:31									#18
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a hoarde,

Attachment: ww2mearsh.gif
This has been downloaded 161 time(s).

	15-05-2005 21:49									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Patine The scen would start in June '40, so you'd already control (...) and Norway (...)

Hey! Norways's not beaten yet! Allied forces are still fighting as best they can in Northern Norway

	15-05-2005 22:59									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Ecthelion Could someone explain to me what we need another wwii scenario for?

We need all kinds of scenarios.

But we do need some kind of WW2 twist in the tale, these days...If only to keep it fresh.

	16-05-2005 00:30									#21
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but is there any difference between all those scenarios?

	16-05-2005 02:57									#22
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This one is for ToT

	16-05-2005 16:14									#23
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Why don't you start in 1933? That would certainly make this more interesting. And the title for the scenario you've chosen would also fit better.

	16-05-2005 16:48									#24
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I am with Eivind here, that would be better

	16-05-2005 16:55									#25
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1936/7 is just fine

	16-05-2005 18:28									#26
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May, 1933, when the National Socialist German Worker's Party won 33.7% of the seats in the Reichstag and Hitler was made Chancellor? That would be an interesting starting point, actually. Though Germany had little military power at that point. Ecthelion's suggestion of '36/7 might allow a better chance at victory. This premise, however, requires Polish infantry and cavalry and Danish and Norweigan infantry be added to the above list of units (I'll have to find a place to fit them). I'm trepiditious of Sept '39 given the severe limits of the AI's diplomatic skill (those early years relied moreso on intimidation and pact-making than actual warfare). Any ideas on getting around these issues?

	16-05-2005 18:45									#27
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How about an invasion of Germany in the 1930's?

Imagine a world were France and the UK decided to not
tolerate Hitler's racism and territory stealing mischief...

The fledgling 3rd Reich could be really under pressure,
but also the Allied force could be in for some nasty surprises!

Like Spain or USSR jumping into the fray!

	16-05-2005 19:13									#28
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1933 would definately be interesting in many aspects. You would have to break the Versaille treaty, go through the development of the very earliest light tanks. With TOT you can have more of the different variants of the panzers. You would have to upgrade the infantry from the early 1918 style, airplanes etc. The Rheinland would have to be remilitarized, building relations with Italy etc.

And why must you waste space with different nation specific infantries? A generic neutral inf would be more than adequate.

If you don't make this I might do it myself.

	16-05-2005 19:20									#29
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As the roots of WW2 lie with the appointment of Hitler as German chancellor on 30 January 1933 I would love to see a scen starting in February 1933.

Imagine, with ToT you could simulate all those crimson factors that made Nazi Germany this military Juggernaut it has been.

ToT would enable you also to include lots of diplomacy - via events, of course

	16-05-2005 19:39									#30
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It would be fun to see a scenario that concludes WW2 before it was even meant to happen!

Jim has takled this with style in his Blood/Steel series, but to
see a historical take on the 1930s would be reall something!