16-05-2005 20:28									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Japher I messed it up too... but then I'm American, I'm allowed to butcher the language.

Well, I'm French. It my mission to butcher your language

	16-05-2005 20:28									#32
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the people speaking up in support of this are brilliant. i'm sorry if i fail to see the difficult in running a bath, but it's hardly rocket science is it.

what i object to is having the government telling me how i can bathe and expecting me to pay for the privilage.

	16-05-2005 20:30									#33
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quote: Originally posted by C0ckney what i object to is having the government telling me how i can bathe and expecting me to pay for the privilage.

That's because you're evil.

	16-05-2005 20:31									#34
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quote: Originally posted by C0ckney the people speaking up in support of this are brilliant. i'm sorry if i fail to see the difficult in running a bath, but it's hardly rocket science is it.

So you are saying that hardly any child or elderly is scalded by hot water?

	16-05-2005 20:32									#35
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My baby class told me that burns are actually common on babies... however, the burn isn't from bathing or hot bottles, but from a stupid parent spilling the coffee or tea on them.

	16-05-2005 20:34									#36
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quote: Originally posted by C0ckney what i object to is having the government telling me how i can bathe and expecting me to pay for the privilage.

This isn't about you running a bath for yourself. Try and understand that. I know it's difficult. It's a thought, and they're hard for you to graps. Like resteraunt regulations, this is about protecting other people from your mistakes.

Frequently, people running bathes for someone else, like a child or an elderly person, run the bath way too hot. And when the child or senior is place in the bath, they are burned, badly, sometimes even dying.

But let's not reality instrude on your right to make an ass of yourself.

	16-05-2005 20:35									#37
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no, but that isn't the point. people manage to injure themselves in a whole variety of ways, but i don't think we should have some silly law for each of them.

	16-05-2005 20:35									#38
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I'm not supporting govt regulation. I'm merely pointing out that there is a problem and that in some instances people cant rectify that problem themselves.

"About 112,000 of these burns are scald burns. According to Safe Kids Coalition, about 37,000 of these people are 14 or under, and about 18,000 are 5 or under.
The United States has the highest rate of burns in the industrialized world, according to the National Safety Council.
Burns are the second leading cause of death for young children ages 0 to 5.
Children burn faster than adults because they have thinner skin.
Everyday, 300 young children are taken to emergency rooms for burns caused by household water that was too hot. Annually, 3,000 of these children require hospitalization.
Water heaters leave the factory set at 140 to 150 degrees Fahrenheit. It takes 2 seconds for a child to receive third degree burns from water at 150 degrees. It takes 5 seconds if the water is at 140 degrees, and 30 seconds at 130 degrees."

http://www.cdc.gov/nasd/docs/d00070...02/d000702.html

	16-05-2005 20:36									#39
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SpencerH, injecting much needed intelligence into the conservative side.

	16-05-2005 20:37									#40
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che, here's a better idea, when people have finished running a bath for someone else, how about they dip their hand in to see if it's too hot.

simple common sense, i know that's hard for you understand but still...

	16-05-2005 20:38									#41
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quote: Originally posted by C0ckney no, but that isn't the point. people manage to injure themselves in a whole variety of ways, but i don't think we should have some silly law for each of them.

So you think resteraunts shouldn't be forced to make sure they have no bugs or contamination, because people need to take responsibility for themselves?

	16-05-2005 20:38									#42
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I had no idea that COckney was a Tory.

	16-05-2005 20:39									#43
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quote: Originally posted by C0ckney che, here's a better idea, when people have finished running a bath for someone else, how about they dip their hand in to see if it's too hot. simple common sense, i know that's hard for you understand but still...

You're right. And if they don't do that, and the water's too hot, who get's hurt? The bather or the person running the water? Hmmm, guess it's not about taking personal responsibility.

	16-05-2005 20:39									#44
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc I had no idea that COckney was a Tory.

He's taking the conservative position.

	16-05-2005 20:42									#45
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If that's code for common sense, I guess he is. Because I fail to see how hard it is to put one's hand in water to see if it is too hot.

	16-05-2005 20:43									#46
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quote: Originally posted by C0ckney no, but that isn't the point. people manage to injure themselves in a whole variety of ways, but i don't think we should have some silly law for each of them.

I don't know. Domestic incidents are a very important cause of child mortality or of child injuries. Children choking on their teddy bears or lego parts, children drinking laundry liquid, children getting burned by hot coffee or scalding water, heavy objects falling on children etc.

Children (and the elderly) happen to have a much more fragile body than teenagers or adults. This is especially true for babies and toodlers. This is why there are safety regulations on most children products (toys, child food), in order to reduce the possible scope of accidents.

I don't know exactly what the proposal is, because the Sun's scaremongering says nothing precise. However, if it's something like capping your water at 60C, like forcing only new buildings to implement it, and that it doesn't mean any extra inspections (i.e, that the control devices get inspected at the same time as the rest of your plumbing), I don't see why anybody would complain.

	16-05-2005 20:44									#47
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc If that's code for common sense, I guess he is. Because I fail to see how hard it is to put one's hand in water to see if it is too hot.

Since I fail to see how hard it is to keep your kitchen clean, I guess the government shouldn't inspect resteraunts or have health regulations.

	16-05-2005 20:44									#48
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc If that's code for common sense, I guess he is. Because I fail to see how hard it is to put one's hand in water to see if it is too hot.

Ask all those burned children SpencerH just mentioned.

	16-05-2005 20:46									#49
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In most places it takes a few seconds for the hot water to reach the tap so you have time to react to the water temp. If the water is 150 deg right out of the tap though you scald yourself before you register that it's too hot. A childs skin is burned at that temp.

	16-05-2005 20:48									#50
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Spiffor: That would be that parents fault and I would agree that if they can't take such a simple precaution, they should be punished. I fail to see how changing the way people bathe and making them pay for that privilege is going to solve the problem of bad parents.

	16-05-2005 20:52									#51
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Spiffor: That would be that parents fault and I would agree that if they can't take such a simple precaution, they should be punished.

I fail to see how punishing the parent fixes the child's burn and permanent disfigurement. I suppose I should be happy that if I were to die of food poisoning, my wife could sue the resteraunt that killed me. After all, it's some kind of equivalent exchange, my life for some money, a permanent burn scar for someone else being punished.

	16-05-2005 20:54									#52
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Why do conservatives prefer restitution/punishment to prevention? It's more expensive and fails to remedy the problem in the first place. It's all, build more prisons, cut school funding. Cut preventive health care to the poor, and complain about how expensive emergency service is. Let the buyer beware, and if he was defrauded or injured or killed, let him sue, but then complain that torts are being abused.

	16-05-2005 20:55									#53
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Spiffor: That would be that parents fault and I would agree that if they can't take such a simple precaution, they should be punished.

So, I suppose you oppose mandatory vaccination campaigns for children, regulation on teddy bears or on baby food?

In Europe, we are fortunate not to have the same kind of tort problems as yours, precisely because we have safety standards that the producers must conform to, instead of letting safety to the appreciation of each individual/company.

Here, I see another safety regulation, and I see the Sun doing some scaremongering about it: "OMFG we won't have the right to have hot baths anymore !!!1!11", whereas the law is likely to ban only scalding temperatures, that are far above the casual hot bath's.

	16-05-2005 21:23									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor So, I suppose you oppose mandatory vaccination campaigns for children, regulation on teddy bears or on baby food?

I don't see how that follows.

	16-05-2005 21:31									#55
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We should also have a law that banned doors from being installed in new-built residential housing, since children often walk into them, or get their fingers pinched against the frame. I say make soft curtains mandatory in every door opening.

And all housing should be kept at ground level so children won't kill themselves from falling out the window. Nice soft grass should be required underneath all window openings so they won't get bruises either.

And parents should be severely punished if they don't buy any ice cream on Sundays. I mean kids seem to like it, and if it makes people happier why shouldn't it be required.

	16-05-2005 21:33									#56
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How about we just outlaw conservatism? That would be a great step forward in ending human misery.

	16-05-2005 21:35									#57
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc I don't see how that follows.

"Vaccining the children is the parents' responsibility"
"Offering non-dangerous teddy bears is the parents' responsibility"
"feeding with healthy food is the parents' responsibility" etc.

	16-05-2005 21:40									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Winston And all housing should be kept at ground level so children won't kill themselves from falling out the window. Nice soft grass should be required underneath all window openings so they won't get bruises either.

We could have safety regulations regarding how high a window fence should be, precisely to avoid children falling out of the window. Actually, bet such a regulation already exists.

quote: And parents should be severely punished if they don't buy any ice cream on Sundays. I mean kids seem to like it, and if it makes people happier why shouldn't it be required.

Is the lack of ice cream a dangerous health hazard?

	16-05-2005 21:50									#59
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Could be, if it makes the whole family so depressed that nobody thinks to check how hot the bath water is.

	17-05-2005 02:02									#60
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I like hot baths and shouldn't be denied to take one at a temperature that I desire.

The government should, by all means, charge parents with negligence if their child is hurt in the bath. They should also wage a big public campaign to make sure people don't use water that's too hot. They can even proscribe a maximum temperature allowed for baths and require an adult to check it before placing a child in it.

But they shouldn't make everyone have to settle for lukewarm baths if that's not what they want. Adults have a right to choose their own temperature, I should think.