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DeathByTheSword is offline DeathByTheSword
King
soon to be a major religion
Nov 2001
time: 05:20
  Old Post 17-05-2005 19:23
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this essently the same that is it requered by law to have an fusebox in your house for the electrics...without it the people are in danger...ofcourse electrical fire and hot water is something different but essently it is the same

JohnT is offline JohnT

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Capitalist
Mar 1999
time: 00:20
  Old Post 17-05-2005 19:25
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Got spare money?

I'm talking about the willingness to throw "hundreds" of pounds/dollars away and then financing it on 30-year terms.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
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  Old Post 17-05-2005 19:26 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by JohnT
The attitude behind this question helps explain why you have constant money problems.

Think about it.


I know. I'm terrible with money.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
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  Old Post 17-05-2005 19:26 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by JohnT
I'm talking about the willingness to throw "hundreds" of pounds/dollars away and then financing it on 30-year terms.


We are talking about a house, here.

JohnT is offline JohnT

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  Old Post 17-05-2005 19:27
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quote:
Originally posted by DeathByTheSword
this essently the same that is it requered by law to have an fusebox in your house for the electrics...without it the people are in danger...ofcourse electrical fire and hot water is something different but essently it is the same


A fusebox prevents electrical fires, quite a different creature than a non-necessary thermometer/limiter.

DeathByTheSword is offline DeathByTheSword
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Nov 2001
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  Old Post 17-05-2005 19:29
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a fusebox only prevents fires because people use to much electricity...if people knew what the wiring could take fuseboxes would also be non-necessary. the same with a therometer/limiter if people knew how to pour themselves a bath there would be no need...but apparently the dont...so the governments steps in to help the poor DUMB people

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
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Sep 1999
time: 23:20
  Old Post 17-05-2005 19:29
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
I know. I'm terrible with money.
Creditors must love you.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
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  Old Post 17-05-2005 19:30 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by DinoDoc
Creditors must love you.


They would if I bought on credit. I try not to, because I know I'm bad with money.

Az is offline Az
King
MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:20
  Old Post 17-05-2005 19:31
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quote:
Originally posted by JohnT
I'm talking about the willingness to throw "hundreds" of pounds/dollars away and then financing it on 30-year terms.


A) it isn't throwing away.
B) It is completely 'correct' when talking about consumer attitudes in general when buying something. The vast majority of people aren't going to hackle over a couple of hundreds, when you're making a multi-thousand purchase.

DeathByTheSword is offline DeathByTheSword
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Nov 2001
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  Old Post 17-05-2005 19:32
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THE ANSWER TO THE BIG QUESTION: WHY IS CHE A COMMIE?
answer (and i quote):
quote:
I'm terrible with money.


JohnT is offline JohnT

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  Old Post 17-05-2005 19:38
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara


We are talking about a house, here.


So?

$100 borrowed for 30 years at 6% will cost you $216 over the life of the loan. $300 of mandated thermometers will cost the buyer almost $700 over the life of the loan.

That's the sort of financial planning that will drive one to bankruptcy.

And all because of what? Some politician wanting to score brownie points with the idiots who think this is a REAL ISSUE?

JohnT is offline JohnT

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  Old Post 17-05-2005 19:38
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quote:
It is completely 'correct' when talking about consumer attitudes in general when buying something. The vast majority of people aren't going to hackle over a couple of hundreds, when you're making a multi-thousand purchase.


Perhaps you should. See above post.

JohnT is offline JohnT

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  Old Post 17-05-2005 19:39
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quote:
Originally posted by DeathByTheSword
a fusebox only prevents fires because people use to much electricity...if people knew what the wiring could take fuseboxes would also be non-necessary. the same with a therometer/limiter if people knew how to pour themselves a bath there would be no need...but apparently the dont...so the governments steps in to help the poor DUMB people


Incorrect analogy: Adjusting the water temperature doesn't require one to know about plumbing.

Az is offline Az
King
MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:20
  Old Post 17-05-2005 19:40
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What's your point? I have no problem paying 700$ over 30 years for something that might save my life, and the life of my children. Niether should you.

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
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Sep 2001
time: 21:20
  Old Post 17-05-2005 19:40
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quote:
Originally posted by DinoDoc
I don't think people should be forced to pay for the privilege if they don't wish to.


You mean like seat belts? What about airbags or child car seats? Maybe the law which says infant's clothing and your bed should be made out of flame retardant fabric is just a wast. I mean most kids don't burn to death or die in car accidents so why bother trying to save a few lives?

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
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Nov 2001
time: 06:20
  Old Post 17-05-2005 19:42
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quote:
Originally posted by JohnT
$100 borrowed for 30 years at 6% will cost you $216 over the life of the loan. $300 of mandated thermometers will cost the buyer almost $700 over the life of the loan.

When you're buying a $600,000 house (Drogue's house, which isn't even extravagant), these $300 are nothing compared to the difference made by good or by bad haggling skills.

DeathByTheSword is offline DeathByTheSword
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Nov 2001
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  Old Post 17-05-2005 19:42
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it isnt about adjusting the water temp. it is about feelin how hot the water is so to say...again the same as with an electril plug...you dont start with putting in a small light and then go up to the biggest baddest lamp to see when the fuse will spring will you?...no you try something from the top of your head...and a lot of people cant judge **** very well

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
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Sep 1999
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  Old Post 17-05-2005 19:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Az
What's your point? I have no problem paying 700$ over 30 years for something that might save my life, and the life of my children. Niether should you.
I happen to know the lost ancient art of putting my hand in bath water to see if it is too hot.

JohnT is offline JohnT

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Mar 1999
time: 00:20
  Old Post 17-05-2005 19:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Az
What's your point? I have no problem paying 700$ over 30 years for something that might save my life, and the life of my children. Niether should you.


Again, there are perfectly adequate controls over water temperature that already exist. They're called "spigots."

And let's not get histrionic here - "save my life and the life of my children"? Please.

DeathByTheSword is offline DeathByTheSword
King
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Nov 2001
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  Old Post 17-05-2005 19:45
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yeah and did you ever did it when the water was to hot? voila the problem...if you havent well you can bet your ass other people did...

it is still a stupid issue...but essently the guy is right

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
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Sep 1999
time: 23:20
Thumbs up  Old Post 17-05-2005 19:46
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quote:
Originally posted by DeathByTheSword
it is still a stupid issue...
Thank you!

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
Emperor
CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:20
Thumbs down  Old Post 17-05-2005 19:47
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quote:
Originally posted by DeathByTheSword
it is still a stupid issue...

Hundreds of thousands of scalded people a year disagree with you.

DeathByTheSword is offline DeathByTheSword
King
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Nov 2001
time: 05:20
  Old Post 17-05-2005 19:48
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next time take the entire sentence into the quote will you

EDIT: BOTH OF YOU

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
King
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Sep 2001
time: 21:20
  Old Post 17-05-2005 19:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Az
quote:
I don't think people should be forced to pay for the privilege if they don't wish to.


Which reminds me, Is installing the device in every home economically sound?


Generally what happens is they update the building code so that every new home or remodel must have it but if your house was built before the law came into effect then it can stay the way it is.

JohnT is offline JohnT

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Mar 1999
time: 00:20
  Old Post 17-05-2005 19:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Spiffor

Hundreds of thousands of scalded people a year disagree with you.


Sorry, Spiff, but I'm gonna have to call you on this one:

Cite on your claim re: the number of people in Britian that are scalded each year due to out of the tap (i.e., non-cooking) hot-water issues at home?

Last edited by JohnT on 17-05-2005 at 20:01

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
Emperor
CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:20
  Old Post 17-05-2005 20:06
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#116 Report this post to a moderator
Got spare money?

In Britain I don't know. But the issue is important even if the statistics are about another developed country:

quote:
Originally posted by SpencerH
"About 112,000 of these burns are scald burns. According to Safe Kids Coalition, about 37,000 of these people are 14 or under, and about 18,000 are 5 or under.
The United States has the highest rate of burns in the industrialized world, according to the National Safety Council.
Burns are the second leading cause of death for young children ages 0 to 5.
Children burn faster than adults because they have thinner skin.
Everyday, 300 young children are taken to emergency rooms for burns caused by household water that was too hot. Annually, 3,000 of these children require hospitalization.
Water heaters leave the factory set at 140 to 150 degrees Fahrenheit. It takes 2 seconds for a child to receive third degree burns from water at 150 degrees. It takes 5 seconds if the water is at 140 degrees, and 30 seconds at 130 degrees."

http://www.cdc.gov/nasd/docs/d00070...02/d000702.html

JohnT is offline JohnT

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Mar 1999
time: 00:20
  Old Post 17-05-2005 20:31
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So, in response to a British call to arms about this non-issue, you cite American statistics.

I see that the cite you quoted doesn't differentiate as to how the water was "too hot", but does its best to imply that it's all due to water heaters. However, in the interests of being fair and balanced, non-quoted sections of the same page claim that "About 50 percent occur because parents put children in water that is too hot."

Note the qualifier "about", meaning "a guess puts it at..." This reduces your "hundreds of thousands" (which itself means a minimum of 200,000) cite to 58,000. Maybe.

And I don't know how things are done in France, but hot water heaters here in the US are easily adjustable. Note the line:

quote:
Water heaters leave the factory set at 140 to 150 degrees Fahrenheit. It takes 2 seconds for a child to receive third degree burns from water at 150 degrees. It takes 5 seconds if the water is at 140 degrees, and 30 seconds at 130 degrees.


In order to prevent this at no added cost to consumers or business, enact legislation that has the heaters leave the factory with the temperature adjusted to 110F.

JohnT is offline JohnT

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Mar 1999
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  Old Post 17-05-2005 20:37
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quote:
So, in response to a British call to arms about this non-issue, you cite American statistics.


Not to quote myself, but as an aside I see this happening quote often (here and in other places). Are British/French/etc statistics like this so hard to find, and if so, why?

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
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Nov 2001
time: 06:20
  Old Post 17-05-2005 20:40
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quote:
Originally posted by JohnT
So, in response to a British call to arms about this non-issue, you cite American statistics.

Yes, I think Britain and the Us are fairly comparable. If there are so many saldings in the US, I assume there is a similar proportion in the UK. I think it qualifies as a public health issue.

quote:
I see that the cite you quoted doesn't differentiate as to how the water was "too hot", but does its best to imply that it's all due to water heaters. However, in the interests of being fair and balanced, non-quoted sections of the same page claim that "About 50 percent occur because parents put children in water that is too hot."

Note the qualifier "about", meaning "a guess puts it at..." This reduces your "hundreds of thousands" (which itself means a minimum of 200,000) cite to 58,000. Maybe.

A year. Do you consider it to be a non-issue?

quote:
In order to prevent this at no added cost to consumers or business, enact legislation that has the heaters leave the factory with the temperature adjusted to 110F.

That would be a better idea actually. I'm curious to know what exactly the lawmaker has to say about it.

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
Emperor
CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:20
  Old Post 17-05-2005 20:41
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quote:
Originally posted by JohnT
Not to quote myself, but as an aside I see this happening quote often (here and in other places). Are British/French/etc statistics like this so hard to find, and if so, why?

SpencerH posted stats in this thread, and I only had to pick them up. I couldn't be arsed to look for British statistics.

 
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