17-05-2005 20:41									#121
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Of course it's a better idea. It came from an American, after all.

	17-05-2005 20:43									#122
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Seriously, it's a good idea, JohnT.

	17-05-2005 20:44									#123
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Thanks.

	17-05-2005 20:47									#124
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The only problem I may see with it is that the amount of water in the heater is rather limited. If you want your water at ~110F, and the water in the heater is 110F, you'll run out of water pretty fast. If you mix 150F water with tap, you get lots more of it.

	17-05-2005 20:50									#125
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You can install a regulator such that that water in the water heater is 150F but is immediatly mixed with the right amount of 45F water to lower it to 110F right after it is released.

Or you could get on demand water heaters and set the temp to whatever you want without fear of running out.

	17-05-2005 20:53									#126
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quote: You can install a regulator such that that water in the water heater is 150F but is immediatly mixed with the right amount of 45F water to lower it to 110F right after it is released.

Which will basically be the same thermostat.

quote: Or you could get on demand water heaters and set the temp to whatever you want without fear of running out.

correct, but there are some problems with them, AFAIK.

	17-05-2005 20:53									#127
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quote: Originally posted by Sikander I think I can visualize Boris' scenario more clearly for you. Imagine that you've been enjoying a nice soak for a while, but the water is getting cold. The tub is nearly full with clean water so what you really want is a little very hot water to warm up the large amount of lukewarm water that you currently have. I agree with Boris, we should have a choice. Perhaps as Spencer suggests this should be regulated only in apartments where people cannot independently make a choice that fits their situation. Otherwise let adults run hot water if they want.

Totally agree.

Beyond that, if the article is correct (not saying it is), the cost to people who don't want such a thing is pretty crappy. I'd all be for a law mandating such a tap be in place and maintained in homes where children or disabled/elderly reside. But a single person who is actually competent at determining his own bath temperature shouldn't have to fork over the money for it.

	17-05-2005 21:31									#128
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quote: I'd all be for a law mandating such a tap be in place and maintained in homes where children or disabled/elderly reside.

But how do you determine that pre-sell? Our current house was owned by a single person and we bought it 2 years BS (Before Sophie.)

	17-05-2005 22:31									#129
	Just the Facts Ma'am Increase the size of your Attachments

There are three questions you have to ask in the economics of consumer and occupational safety:
1. Is the hazard hard to identify?
2. Is the hazard hard to avoid?
3. Is the hazard significant?

If you can answer "yes" to all three questions, then there is an economic case for regulation. In some cases there clearly is good reason to regulate. I have no way of knowing the sanitary condition of a restaruant's kitchen, so there is a pretty good case to be made for sanitary instpctors. Similarly, workers often have no idea what kind of chemicals they are working with, or what the effects will be on them 30 years from now, so there is a strong case for good occupational standards.

But in this case there is not a very strong argument to make. Sticking your hand in the bath before the child gets near it will tell you if the bath is too hot. Any competent parent knows this. Turning up the cold water, before the child gets in the bath, will solve the problem. Is the problem significant? One quick Google gets to this page:
http://www.capt.org.uk/Projects/default.htm

quote: Around 570 severe scalding injuries occur each year in the UK as a result of high bath water outlet temperature. Approximately 440 of these accidents happen to children under 5 years old. Severe scald injuries require many years of lengthy surgical treatment and result in permanent scarring. Although most bath water scalds are preventable, Department of Trade and Industry (DTI) figures illustrate that the number of cases have remained unchanged for several years.

So its not hundreds of thousands of people, its preventable, and its not increasing over time, as the original article claims.

quote: Also following consultation, the Housing Corporation agreed to insert a new recommendation item into the revised Scheme Development Standards, that came into effect on the 1 April 2003. The new recommendation is that hot water taps to baths should have a thermostatically controlled supply. For housing associations bidding for social housing grant allocations after 2003 there is a clear incentive to comply with the criteria as defined within the Scheme Developments Standards.

So its not just the Sun, there is apparently actually something to the proposal.

	17-05-2005 22:33									#130
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110F?

I take my showers hotter than that.

	17-05-2005 22:35									#131
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT quote: I'd all be for a law mandating such a tap be in place and maintained in homes where children or disabled/elderly reside. But how do you determine that pre-sell? Our current house was owned by a single person and we bought it 2 years BS (Before Sophie.)

That's why you just make it mandatory, and make the device itself as inexpensive and as simple as possible.

	17-05-2005 22:36									#132
	Remove this text

140F is a minimum for what most people do with their hot water.

I wash dishes with water at around 125-130F, and with the loss of temperature which occurs rather quickly when you're running the water, within about 5 minutes I'm running the water completely hot.

	17-05-2005 22:38									#133
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Anyhow, what parents should do when they have kids is to turn down their heaters to 120F or so (it's hard to get a burn from that temperature).

Setting up mandatory safety devices is slightly silly.

	17-05-2005 22:40									#134
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erm, KH, I am unfamiliar with this forunhite nonsense. How much is 120F, and how much is 140F?

	17-05-2005 22:43									#135
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subtract 32 and multiply by 5/9

120F = 49C
140F = 60C

140F is a dangerous water temperature. It is painful to the touch.

120F is easily bearable (I like taking showers as near to scalding as possible)

	17-05-2005 22:45									#136
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Washing dishes in 130F is pretty reasonable. Leaving your hand under the water becomes painful, but it dissolves grease much more easily than merely warm water.

	17-05-2005 22:47									#137
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thanks,

quote: subtract 32 and multiply by 5/9

I'll never remember this.

Anyhow,49 isn't burning, but it is pretty hot... "easily bearable" isn't what I look for in a hot shower, most of the time.

	17-05-2005 22:57									#138
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They say not to wash your baby over a temp of 99F

	17-05-2005 22:59									#139
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Okay, assume I'm a child. My parents are distracted and they draw a bath that scalds me. I now have 3rd degree burns over a substantial part of my body. I get to live my life in pain, suffering years of operations and skin grafts and look like a freak. How exactly is my life helped by punishing the parent who made the accident happen?

	17-05-2005 22:59									#140
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I certainly wouldn't give a child a bath of 120F

99F seems a bit low.

Probably anywhere up to 105F is quite safe. That's still barely lukewarm.

	17-05-2005 23:03									#141
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yeah, better a tad hotter than body temp than a tad colder.