27-05-2005 00:30									#181
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I love the freedom to insult someone's deep beliefs. It's why I come to Poly.

	27-05-2005 00:35									#182
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quote: Originally posted by Az quote: and I dont? (Albania, south Bulgaria, Turkey, Egypt) egypt that's almost 1000kms from you!!

nice place

quote: Islam is not evil as a religion, because the truth is religions can and were used for a myriad of causes, from freeing slaves to genocide. The culture and society that it's followers have spread, OTOH, is, quite frankly, dangerous.

With that I agree with some addition.
Not all its followers not all its societies etc do that.
other religions do that too with many more dead even though more advanced technically. (not talking jewish religion here, generally)

and that negates "the islam is evil" thing IMO

	27-05-2005 00:42									#183
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quote: Originally posted by Pyrodrew I love the freedom to insult someone's deep beliefs. It's why I come to Poly.

I wish you'd change your avatar. Everytime I see you, I at first think you're Patroklos or the diplomat, so I expect you to say something stupid.

	27-05-2005 00:43									#184
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All of this is meaningless beating around the bush. The questions are:

-Are the muslim societies of the middle east mistreating vast parts of their population? Yes.
-Do the muslim societies of the middle east present danger to us? Yes.

QE-****ing-D. evil, and dangerous to us -> must be destroyed via propoganda, leaflets, mindrays, you name it.

	27-05-2005 00:46									#185
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Az, oh but you can't say that! People might hurt their feelings!

	27-05-2005 00:46									#186
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AFAIK deep beliefs are ok.

but there are a number of things that can be absolutely persecutable.

slander is one.
swearing is two.


If i call you a damn **** whatever (pancy, w*nker etc) you have the right to sue me.
If I insult your parents or your family you have the right to sue me.

If I insult your religious believes (not only am I socially hideous) you can sue me too.

There are some things that the law was recognized as core for the human dignity. those you are not allowed to mock with freedom, because in a way you are trumbling on someone else's dignity.

I think that's a more perfected freedom of speech than the american model, where one can say anything and be hidden behind the freedom of speech. that's just my opinion.


and it has to be a fine balance between freedom of speech and respecting other peoples' core dignity.

	27-05-2005 00:49									#187
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Maybe in Greece. IN here you can't. Fortunately. I mean sure you can try but it would be waste of time, money and your own personal reputation.

Show the laws of those. Even to this date you have failed to deliver the exact laws. We say they don't exist. We are right as long as you can't provide them.

	27-05-2005 00:50									#188
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And swearing is persecutable offense? What the **** are you talking about?

	27-05-2005 00:50									#189
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka Maybe in Greece. IN here you can't. Fortunately. I mean sure you can try but it would be waste of time, money and your own personal reputation.

You have those laws too pekka. Holland has them, plenty of other european coutnries have them, how come finland doesnt have them? would be very strange

	27-05-2005 00:51									#190
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You show the laws and I believe they exist.

So far, you have nto shown us anything, expect saying nay nay nay when everyone else has been calling you for it.

	27-05-2005 00:52									#191
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka And swearing is persecutable offense? What the **** are you talking about?

insulting one is

you trumble on his basic dignity.
so ass in jail!!!

	27-05-2005 00:53									#192
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka You show the laws and I believe they exist. So far, you have nto shown us anything, expect saying nay nay nay when everyone else has been calling you for it.

only you have called for these laws. which they do exist but im bored to find them for you. search the constitution of whatever european country. look for i dont know human dignity, defamation etc and you'll find them - or the basis for them. then you have to look for law books.

	27-05-2005 00:56									#193
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basic dignity? And who defines that? The law of the universal?

Come on man..

Yeah we have all called that you are not RIGHT. I am the only one saying you are wrong until you prove you are right. I know they aren't there, so why would I go through law books wasting my time looking for something tha tisn't there .

I know defamantion is, and all that crap, but YOU are interpreting like a mother****er thinking it applies to everything you feel like. WE KNOW what it applies to, it applies to cases where there is damage done!

Like Che already told you. And the rest of the people.

	27-05-2005 00:59									#194
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I guess we shouldn't call Scientology bullshit either, because, well, it's a religion.



Let's see if the Scientologists can sue me for that. I say it's a religion that makes you a pedophile, based on false beliefs that only wants to steal your money.

	27-05-2005 01:02									#195
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quote: I guess we shouldn't call Scientology bullshit either, because, well, it's a religion.

PWNED!

	27-05-2005 01:22									#196
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Don't some European countries *cough*Germany*cough* ban Scientology outright? How does that figure into their supposed right to be free from slander? I could hardly think of something more "slanderous" to a religion than to outlaw it.

	27-05-2005 01:26									#197
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che is an ignoramous yank lives far away.
you pekka dont know


so dont laught that hard

	27-05-2005 01:26									#198
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scientology is not classified as a religion but as a sect
(banned in greece as well)

	27-05-2005 01:27									#199
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka basic dignity? And who defines that? The law of the universal?

something like that
or the law of man

	27-05-2005 01:32									#200
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka Maybe in Greece. IN here you can't. Fortunately. I mean sure you can try but it would be waste of time, money and your own personal reputation. Show the laws of those. Even to this date you have failed to deliver the exact laws. We say they don't exist. We are right as long as you can't provide them.

Um.. Pekka. Isn't Finland part of the EU as well as the Council of Europe? Both bodies have said allowing religious hatred is a violation of the principle of dignity found the European Convention of Human Rights and in the Charter of Fundamental Rights (which is non-enforceable, but strongly influences Court of Justice rulings).

It is also a principle enshrined in the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, and I don't believe Finland has filed a reservation on the racial/religious hatred clause.

	27-05-2005 01:36									#201
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In Greece these laws are far older than those conventions. I know that to be true in other countries as well. I'm very very inclined to think this is also the case in Finland.

	27-05-2005 01:50									#202
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That definetly may be true, but I have no idea. With these conventions Pekka cannot deny it has been the law in Finland since then.

	27-05-2005 01:51									#203
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Yep.
I hope the shock isn't too much

	27-05-2005 02:01									#204
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quote: Originally posted by Jaguar Kuci is always right.

Ken Banobi

	27-05-2005 10:25									#205
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Well show me the law then. And there's also the interpretation of the law. Even if soem POS relic of PC ***** policy exist, it's not implemented.

I can say waht I want about religions, evil, stupid, bigoted or not. Adn there's nothing you can do about it

Take that to you pedophile catholics and gay muslims