26-05-2005 07:37									#151
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No, I have a problem with this, only it pisses me off to see that things can be said about Muslims that can't about Blacks or Jews. I hate double standards, but I happen to believe that as long as it's only talk, it can't really hurt (so I disagree with her being sued).

	26-05-2005 15:24									#152
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun Saying that Western civilization is superior to Islamic civilization is not true. Neither is superior to the other.

You can prove that they are qualitatively identical?

	26-05-2005 16:11									#153
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I'm not sure why everyone is so suprised. Bigotry against ethic and religious groups is generally illegal in Europe (and saying that Islam "sows hatred in the place of love and slavery in the place of freedom" sure sounds like that). I'd assume that Italy's no different. But yes, legislating against bigotted speech is idiotic. Free speech.

	26-05-2005 16:15									#154
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quote: nd saying that Islam "sows hatred in the place of love and slavery in the place of freedom" sure sounds like that

That sounds quite literally true.

	26-05-2005 16:23									#155
	Got spare money?

Only because you've lived a sheltered life among your 26 bathrooms.

	26-05-2005 16:36									#156
	Put an end to popups!

Appropriate Kucitroll = 9/10

	26-05-2005 17:07									#157
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quote: Originally posted by Oncle Boris Comrade, have you forgotten that the "Enlightenment" is what brought most moral and metaphysical prejudices at the root of the idea of private property? Most contemporary marxist thinkers are, actually, quite anti-enlightenment.

really, wow

	26-05-2005 21:23									#158
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT Che, don't forget that you're arguing with a person who doesn't "believe" in the concept of "Western Civilization." You're not even speaking the same language when such a gulf exists.

i dont believe it. it has many loopholes and is a recent fabrication.

	26-05-2005 21:24									#159
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo Only because you've lived a sheltered life among your 26 bathrooms.

ZING!

	26-05-2005 21:28									#160
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che talking about islam and every one that happens to pass around throws a thought.
noone lives next to muslim countries, noone probably even been near a muslim exxcept their immigrants and under those circumstances, nobody knows how and how much a role it plays in the life of people.
and they talk and talk and talk about how it is baaaad. yet another uniting fibre in the so very important quest for unity and homogenuity in those parts.
too bad the laws are inadequate there and people are allolwed to offend the religious feeling of their fellow people. but i geuss they think they're terrorists so its ok and they're so free so they do it.

	26-05-2005 21:29									#161
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I do wonder though -- if Islam is inherently evil as some posters here claim, does this make every Muslim individual evil? No matter how secular or religious they are? No matter how kind-hearted and open-minded they are?

	26-05-2005 22:10									#162
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo I'm not sure why everyone is so suprised. Bigotry against ethic and religious groups is generally illegal in Europe (and saying that Islam "sows hatred in the place of love and slavery in the place of freedom" sure sounds like that). I'd assume that Italy's no different. But yes, legislating against bigotted speech is idiotic. Free speech.

I dont know. Legislating against group libel is one thing - its saying something about a group of people, and is justified (sorta) as an extension of traditional libel. But saying "Islam is X" is different, logically, than saying "muslims are X". Now youre legislating against criticism of a thought system, an ideology, if you will. Can you no longer say that Christianity caused the death of millions of muslims, pagans and Jews? Can you no longer say that the bible, read literally, is disproven by Darwin? Where do you draw the line exactly? This is very dangerous ground, I think.

	26-05-2005 22:39									#163
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark I dont know. Legislating against group libel is one thing - its saying something about a group of people, and is justified (sorta) as an extension of traditional libel. But saying "Islam is X" is different, logically, than saying "muslims are X".

Read Oncle Boris' post. The text apparently does say things about Muslims. It says things against Islam and then transposes them on Muslims.

Ramo is correct, and I can't believe it took THAT long for someone to bring it up. Europe's hate speech laws are FAR more stringent than the US's. Inciting religious hatred is a crime in most European states.

	26-05-2005 22:49									#164
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Read Oncle Boris' post. The text apparently does say things about Muslims. It says things against Islam and then transposes them on Muslims. Ramo is correct, and I can't believe it took THAT long for someone to bring it up. Europe's hate speech laws are FAR more stringent than the US's. Inciting religious hatred is a crime in most European states.

"I can't bother to read those 5 pages of thread to see if it's been said, but I read once a translation of a part of her book, it was really hateful, depicting Muslims as pigs, appealing to mass murder, etc."

Its real hard to tell whats in her book from that, Im afraid.

	26-05-2005 22:53									#165
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quote: Ramo is correct, and I can't believe it took THAT long for someone to bring it up. Europe's hate speech laws are FAR more stringent than the US's.

Which is a real shame. I would have expected those laws to be temporary.

	26-05-2005 22:56									#166
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_I'd assume that Italy's no different.

It isn't. anti defamation laws exist in many countries in europe. for sure in Holland too, although maybe recently it has been abolished, but im not sure

	26-05-2005 22:56									#167
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker quote: nd saying that Islam "sows hatred in the place of love and slavery in the place of freedom" sure sounds like that That sounds quite literally true.

Kuci is always right.

	26-05-2005 23:10									#168
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun I do wonder though -- if Islam is inherently evil as some posters here claim, does this make every Muslim individual evil?

Christianity is inherently evil, but most Christians aren't.

	26-05-2005 23:12									#169
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Christianity is inherently evil, but most Christians aren't.

Truth.

	26-05-2005 23:12									#170
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this is kindergarden level conversation

	26-05-2005 23:13									#171
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Appropriate that you should post here, then.

	27-05-2005 00:07									#173
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 che talking about islam and every one that happens to pass around throws a thought. noone lives next to muslim countries, noone probably even been near a muslim exxcept their immigrants and under those circumstances, nobody knows how and how much a role it plays in the life of people. and they talk and talk and talk about how it is baaaad. yet another uniting fibre in the so very important quest for unity and homogenuity in those parts. too bad the laws are inadequate there and people are allolwed to offend the religious feeling of their fellow people. but i geuss they think they're terrorists so its ok and they're so free so they do it.

you're an effing moron. I know and say all these things because live next to muslim communities.

	27-05-2005 00:08									#174
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and I dont? (Albania, south Bulgaria, Turkey, Egypt)
But you're in a special case. SImilar to the yanks from a POV
(what's an effing?)

	27-05-2005 00:18									#175
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Christianity is inherently evil, but most Christians aren't.

Well that's a relief. Because if people were to infer that all Muslim individuals are evil based on the opinion that the religion, Islam, is inherently evil, it wouldn't be that much further before we could justify all different forms of repression and discrimination with which to target all Muslims.





Not that I agree that Islam or Christianity are inherently evil. Neither of them are.

	27-05-2005 00:23									#176
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this is horrible. I'm glad I live in a normal country with the freedom to express your thoughts no matter how screwed up they are.

	27-05-2005 00:24									#177
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Anyone should have the freedom to express any ignorant, untruthful statement they want, I agree.

	27-05-2005 00:25									#178
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quote: and I dont? (Albania, south Bulgaria, Turkey, Egypt)

egypt that's almost 1000kms from you!!

Now let me try this:

next house, across the street, 5 kms away from me 10 kms away from me 12 kms away from me.

quote: But you're in a special case.

Does the ongoing war make some of the arabs here wifebeating daughter-and-sisters-murdering bastards? GEE I DIDN'T KNOW THAT!

quote: (what's an effing?)

fuc*ing.

quote: Well that's a relief. Because if people were to infer that all Muslim individuals are evil based on the opinion that the religion, Islam, is inherently evil, it wouldn't be that much further before we could justify all different forms of repression and discrimination with which to target all Muslims.

Islam is not evil as a religion, because the truth is religions can and were used for a myriad of causes, from freeing slaves to genocide. The culture and society that it's followers have spread, OTOH, is, quite frankly, dangerous.

	27-05-2005 00:26									#179
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Az, that is obvious that fundamentalist extremists in any religion are dangerous.

	27-05-2005 00:28									#180
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I OTOH I'm quite comfortable with the fact that not everyone will have the absolut freedom to insult what another person is feeling deep in his heart such as his religious beliefs. ANd from my part I might disagree with him 100% but I will not be ready to mock him just because I have a different opinion. And I think that's a better approach to it.