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DanS
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Kickball Capital of the World
Jan 1970
time: 00:23
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And the Dutch are to follow with a no vote.
This is a good move. No need to accept a bad constitution.
One thing that's funny from an outsider's point of view is that the yes camp is saying all sorts of horrific things will happen if the treaty is rejected. An apocalapse. I bet these kind of scary pronouncements only hurt the yes cause. They sound desperate.
The no camp is saying some stupid stuff too. They make it sound as if France will become the 51st US state, if the yes vote wins. 
Polls show a no lead of 54% - 46%.
From the Guardian...
quote:
French non a disaster for world says EU chief
Jon Henley in Paris and Patrick Wintour
Thursday May 26, 2005
The Guardian
A no vote in France's referendum on the European constitution on Sunday would be a catastrophe for the entire world, EU president Jean-Claude Juncker warned yesterday.
Mr Juncker, the prime minister of Luxembourg, said a French no could have a major impact on foreign investment in the union, and repeated that there was no question of the treaty being renegotiated if France's voters - as 10 polls in a row have predicted - decide to blow a Gallic raspberry to both their centre-right government and the treaty.
"If there is a 'no' on Sunday in France, that would be a catastrophe for France, for [French president Jacques] Chirac and for the entire world," Mr Juncker, who holds the EU's rotating presidency until July 1, said in an interview with Belgian daily Le Soir.
"Imagine if you are head of a business in Texas or unionist in Bolivia or head of a business in Shanghai and see Europe like that ... saying 'no'," he added. "International observers will not know where Europe is going."
Doomsayers are growing in number ahead of Sunday's vote. Lord Kinnock, the former European commissioner, yesterday became the most senior Labour figure to foresee the treaty unravelling.
"I am pretty certain we are not going to have a referendum now because the French are going to do what they will do on Sunday and that is kill the treaty stone dead," he told a Labour meeting in London.
"And if you have not got a treaty, there is no point having a referendum."
He said the reversal would keep the Europe issue prominent in British politics. "The fact will remain that across parties, but especially in Labour, we will have to engage in demystifying the EU by demonstrating how little it costs and what it does."
The constitution, aimed at making the now 25-nation EU more efficient and more democratic, must be ratified by every member state to come into force. The latest poll puts the no vote in France on 54%, and in the Netherlands - which votes three days later - on 57%.
The beleaguered French prime minister, Jean-Pierre Raffarin, insisted yesterday that the referendum's outcome was still in the balance, and called on voters not to use the vote to punish his government for continuing high unemployment and unpopular economic and social reforms.
A separate poll showed public confidence in the prime minister had fallen to a record low, with just 28% of voters saying they trusted him to tackle the key challenges facing France. Mr Chirac's personal approval rating was stable at 44%. The government's unpopularity is one of the key obstacles facing the yes camp in the last days of its campaign: many observers believe endorsements of the treaty by Mr Raffarin are now counter-productive.
But the prime minister insisted yesterday that "nothing is settled". He said France must "open its heart to Europe", and urged voters not to take aim at the wrong target.
Dutch politicians have suggested a second referendum may be held if the Netherlands rejects the constitution, but Mr Raffarin has ruled out a second vote in France. |
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Bereta_Eder
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Our PM wrote a letter to the french newspapers saying they should vote yes.
So it's ok
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Lancer
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Oregon Coast, USA! or Bohol, Philippines!
Apr 1999
time: 05:23
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Europeans hate each other too much to get it together.
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Spiffor
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CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:23
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The campaign isn't as high-level as I'd wish, considering that the issue is very complex, and that TV doesn't carry complex messages well.
The campaign is mostly based on scaremongering, but there are some good things about it:
1. We talking about a constitution, and most parties involved in the campaign (political parties and grassroots organizations) do speak about the text. Especially on the Non side, which can speak about many many negative aspects of the constitution.
2. We're talking about Europe. It's the first time since the Maastricht treaty that the European debate is passionate in France. IMO, the European debate is the most important political issue in France (70% of our laws are decided or inspired by European institutions), and it's about damn time that the debate comes to the hands of the people.
I wouldn't be too triumphant though. The Oui can still win. We have many undecided voters, and I expect them to swing in the direction of the political establishment when push comes to shove.
Besides, If the non has only slightly more votes than the oui, I wouldn't put it past our glorious politicians to fraud on that one.
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Bereta_Eder
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ask anyone here including DanS to tell you what the eurocon is all about
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Bereta_Eder
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quote:
Originally posted by Spiffor
I've heard the French possible non has triggered an actual debate in Greece (with a major demo saying "the French non is our non"). Is the debate any important in Greece, or is it solely in the hands of politicians? |
Hmmm not really.... since the euroconstitution is ratified by the partliement (no referendum) and since there has been a sort of agreement on a wide arrey of the political spectrum tht EU interest and Greek interests coincide to a satisfactory extend, there hasnt been a large debate about it. however the communist party whos influence and voice far exxceeds its representation on the voting % does have objections and i wouldnt find it beyond it to have such a motto. personally i havent heard of it.
but there is interest about what the french are doing with the referendum. i think not only in greece but europe wide.
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Bereta_Eder
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some americans tend to feel reassured of themselves if they think that europeans hate one another...
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Lancer
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Oregon Coast, USA! or Bohol, Philippines!
Apr 1999
time: 05:23
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Who in europe do the Germans love?
What nation does the French love?
In fact does any nation in europe love the French?
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Bereta_Eder
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it's not a question of love but of a growing sense of a common identity.
of course it has different shades in different countries.
for example in the UK you will find it underdeveloped. In most of the other original 15 countries though more developed.
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26-05-2005 22:02
at least the left in there has done something right.
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