26-05-2005 22:57									#61
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"What? These thieves, these arrogant crooks and con-men?" -Spif



Which really brings us right back to the French.

	26-05-2005 22:58									#62
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see, now he;s happy

	26-05-2005 23:02									#63
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Spiffor: But what is written in the soon-to-be-rejected proposed constitution is not...

quote: The constitution forces the countries to rearm, and the European common defense is strictly under the management of NATO.

	26-05-2005 23:25									#64
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"A collective identity can be created with the appropriate cultural/symbolic policy"

Exactly. So it doesn't exist. This is the leftist dream that is completely BS. You want to create a unity that has one culture and dream. YOu have no appreciation for variety and that we don't need to have one single mind. We need to have different minds. That's why ultimately you are borderline racist. You want to assimilate everyone into being one big you.

Because the left thinks they know the best and for everyone, they don't in fact even need their choice so much, because some of them will choose against their own good anyway, the good you define, that is utlimately your own good, not the good of the rest of us.

One last time. Step aside and stop trying to limit my freedoms. YOu will never understand that we are nothing alike. Because basically what you guys are, you are the the good intention guys, unfortunately that way is paved to hell. BECAUSE ultimately you are against freedom and for collective this and that. It's anti-individula-choice by nature. You don't respect my freedom. You only respect your own ass, which paradoxally is what you claim you're not doing. Guess what, you are.

	26-05-2005 23:35									#65
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You really can't have a deep rooted collective identity without a shared cultural and language background. English is the obvious choice but France seems to hate everything to do with English.

Last edited by Oerdin on 26-05-2005 at 23:55

	26-05-2005 23:39									#66
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like I said, this is leftist BS. Leftist in Europe have some common ideas, like every political 'brother' has with other countries equal. They call it the European Identity. Kind of like Republicans call themselves Patriots. European leftist call this BS, but when they do it, it's OK because it's 'true'.

They like to do what we call godwinizing in here all the time. They don't need to show anything, let alone bring stats. That's because the data is most often against them and show their poor performance. They just 'Euronize' everything. AND they think they should be able to decide for everyone else.

	26-05-2005 23:41									#67
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What they feel is European Identity. 'We feel against war in iraq. We are also Europeans. Hey, this is common between us, and we also thinkg the European diplomatic way is better.. yes.. the EUROPEAN WAY'. These people have no idea what the **** they are talkign about. We migh as well lump OBL into Euro Identity and Russians. Why not Asians while we're at it, if they're against the US, they have European Identity.

No they don't.

Idiots.

	27-05-2005 00:04									#68
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pekka they would love you at a talent show in alabama thw white house or someplace such

	27-05-2005 00:11									#69
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I don't agree with you, I must be a redneck? Very leftist of you. I'm not leftist, I'm not right wing. I'm a person with brains who thinks, not a whore of any party or gang.

	27-05-2005 00:12									#70
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You misunderstood me. I didn't characterize you as anything. I only said that in certain circles in the US your views would be very popular

	27-05-2005 00:14									#71
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RIght. I'm of course speaking that individual choice, aka freedom, should be held high and that no political party/ideology should rule over my wish when it comes to what choices I can make.

Unfortunately that's not what you represent. You would be a popular speaker in the gulag world, it's a fun theme park in Siberia.

	27-05-2005 00:15									#72
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Yes but what would be the audiences?

Just white bears and they can't understand unfreedom and undemocracy

	27-05-2005 00:17									#73
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What ever. I know what you said even though you try to spin it around. Note that it says more about you than it says about me.

	27-05-2005 00:19									#74
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka What ever. I know what you said even though you try to spin it around. Note that it says more about you than it says about me.

So noted. But it really wasn't about you. Unless you think I associated you with either alabama or the white house. I just think that in places like that your views would be very popular and welcomed. That says about them more not about you. And it doesn't say anything really bad about them either.

	27-05-2005 00:20									#75
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka "90% of the Europeans feel a closer bond to their national identity than to Europe. Among them, a half doesn't feel European at all (source: 2000)" Sounds about right. So what was the common identity? Do you realize it's ****ing impossible to have common identity? Do you realize we are different people from different cultures etc etc etc? WHAT - COMMON - IDENTITY?

Oh man, I get so fed up with statements like this. Are you then claiming that all Finns are alike, that you're all clones?

	27-05-2005 00:21									#76
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quote: Originally posted by DanS The no camp is saying some stupid stuff too. They make it sound as if France will become the 51st US state, if the yes vote wins.

How many times do I have to correct people on this?



The United Kingdom is already our 51st state -- so whenever you say that any other country could become our next state, it will have to become the 52nd state.

	27-05-2005 00:27									#77
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin You really can't have a deep rooted collective identity without a shared cultural and language background.

USA?

Seriously, I think there's a large misunderstanding about that identity thing: European identity cannot mean that all other identities are simply erased. The question is just how the balance between national and supranational identity is. But both do IMO not neccessarily exclude eachother. Even within nation states there are strong regional or local identities, so why should national identities have no place in a larger political unit?

I agree though that currently national identities are much stronger than the European one. OTOH there's certainly a difference to the Europe of 1900 or 1945 or even later in this aspect.

	27-05-2005 00:27									#78
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paiktis, ok try to spin your way out of it. This is what I mean. You are talking BS as we speak. You and I perfectly know what you meant by it, and now you want to play the 'oh you are just paranoid' card. It's just too obvious and I'm not even offended. You know why?

Because just like the Alabama stereotype you want to paint on me, the left of Europe also is guilty of the same thing.. bi-polarized thinking and world. Which ultimately is just biased, and false.

You see, I don't belong in either.. not in Alabama, or not in the leftist dream. I don't support either one of them. Yet you think, since I oppose your dream, that I must be the other group, the evil right wingers who want to globalize the world and get it in the butt from big corporations and let them make the rules, kill the poor people of the world and harvest the profit from it.

But you see, I'm not part of that club either. But I see that club, as I see your club as well, and they are both full of BS.

	27-05-2005 00:30									#79
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alabama was a minor troll to be associated with the white house.
THAT'S IT!!!

	27-05-2005 00:32									#80
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Sure. Can I sue you for that statement? Let the court decide how hateful that was.

	27-05-2005 00:33									#81
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ah you cant actually
it was artfully put. I just associated alabama with the white house. But didnt insult anyone

	27-05-2005 00:33									#82
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So, the erection of a Superpower Europe, to rival and inhibit the USA world overlord, founders because of, guess whoo, French leftists, socialists and commie-dummies. How predictable. Commie-dummies continue their unstoppleble march to failure and obscurity.

	27-05-2005 00:38									#83
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quote: Originally posted by Lefty Scaevola So, the erection of a Superpower Europe, to rival and inhibit the USA world overlord, founders because of, guess whoo, French leftists, socialists and commie-dummies. How predictable. Commie-dummies continue their unstoppleble march to failure and obscurity.

http://www.rathergood.com/laibach/

	27-05-2005 00:39									#84
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paiktis, so what? I might have been offended anyway. It's not up to you if you didn't meant to offend, maybe you did anyway. If you do a crime by accident, it's still a crime.

oh and PS. there is no european identity. Or if there is... show it. Prove it. 'oh but you can't prove an identity+!+1'. Well.. explain it as good as you can. Then again, Spiff already came with stats debunking your BS theory, again what you claimed to be true. But it turned out to be your own opinion and illusion. Typical left wing.

	27-05-2005 00:40									#85
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Coomie-Kittens are waaaaay cooler than commie-dummies.

	27-05-2005 00:42									#86
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka paiktis, so what? I might have been offended anyway. It's not up to you if you didn't meant to offend, maybe you did anyway. If you do a crime by accident, it's still a crime.

You can't be offended if there was no direct offense! You were offended because you interpeted something as being offensive. Atcually alabama can sue you

	27-05-2005 00:43									#87
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I didn't say anything about Alabama though. They just interpreted it. Actually I can sue Apolyton. Try to make up your mind. I know it's all BS. No one should be able to sue anyone in this case. Period.

	27-05-2005 01:01									#88
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quote: Originally posted by BeBro USA?

That country has a shared culture and national language.

	27-05-2005 01:29									#89
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin That country has a shared culture and national language.

	27-05-2005 01:45									#90
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quote: Originally posted by BeBro USA?

absolutely.

The immigration experience, the public school system, the desire of the children of immigrants to fit in, to move up, to get away from the ways of their "embarrassing" immigrant parents, is almost cliche over here. Americans of european origin only started really celebratring"ethnicity" when it was dilute enough to not be dangerous.