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Muad'Dib
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Of The Known Universe
Jan 1970
time: 05:24
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I was watching Frontline last night and it dealt with a Polish Jew who survived the Holocaust and was traveling through Germany talking to Germans about the subject and such. As he talked to a group of high-schoolers, he asked them about how they should be educated on the subject (Holocaust). This German b***h said, "What about Vietnam, the Americans did as many bad things as the Germans did."
Really, you f*****g c**t.
I don't remember seeing American soldiers digging trenches and filling them with dead Vietnamese after they were executed by the thousands. I didn't see American soldiers stripping nake Vietnamese, stuffing them in small chambers, filling it with poison gas, and then send the bodies to huge ovens to be cremated by the millions. I didn't see any Vietnamese being starved to death and walking around like human skeletons. But we did see Germans do that.
So America's involvement in Vietnam is comparable to what the Germans did in WW2. Whow!!!! So this is what they're being taught today.
My only reply to that is this:
quote:
Those who fail to learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat it. |
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DAVOUT
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AUERSTADT
Jun 2002
time: 05:24
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If you are a veteran from Vietnam, you could have explained to them how the American soldiers behave well compared to the Germans, rather than insulting their teachers.
The quote about lessons of history is not addressed to high-schoolers : they are received by those who make the decisions resulting in dramatic consequences.
Last edited by DAVOUT on 01-06-2005 at 20:48
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Muad'Dib
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Of The Known Universe
Jan 1970
time: 05:24
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If you watched the program like I did, I believe the 3rd generation is starting to get pissed off by their Grandparents & parents guilt trip.
The Holocaust survivor talked to a 3rd gen author (I forget his name), who wrote a book Nobody Asked Us. My impression, Dry, is that all this stuff is starting to become white noise to the 3rd geners. Hence the b***h's views I mentioned earlier.
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Locutus
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ACS CTP1/2 Manager & Civ4 Co-Manager
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Hengelo, The Netherlands
Nov 1999
time: 06:24
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Yes, because napalming 4 million civilians is a very civilized thing to do 
Obviously it's not even on the same level as the Holocaust, but you said she was a high-schooler? 15-16 maybe? Can we really expect her to know the difference? If she was a well-educated grown-up maybe... and as others have said, Germans are very well educated in this respect.
Either way, the Holocaust was the darkest hour in the history of mankind and Vietnam or any other war doesn't compare, there's no doubt about that. But that doesn't mean make every other war the epithomy of all that is good and right. The Americans did commit horrors in Vietnams, just because the Holocaust was worse doesn't make that any less true. Americans ought to be ashamed of what their countrymen did in Vietnam, just as the Germans should be ashamed of WWII, and as the Vietnamese should for their countrymen (and as such pretty much every nation has something to be ashamed of -- I feel I'm more a citizen of the world or Europe than of the Netherlands, but I feel deeply, deeply, deeply ashamed of how my fellow countrymen stood by and did nothing -- and in a way even assisted -- the Serbs during the massacre of Screbrenica, for one thing).
But in reality the only thing many Americans are ashamed of with regard to Vietnam is the fact that they lost
When Americans talk about the causualties of that war, they always talk about the 59,000 Americans that died, but I rarely catch anyone talking about the 3-4 million Vietnamese civilian casualties. I also find it extremely disturbing how Americans in Vietnam are usually depicted as heroes and the good guys. The line "I love the smell of napalm in the morning" is generally regarded as a great movie line (even voted best line in the history of cinema according to one poll) and frequently paraphrased in all sorts of context as a heroic thing to say -- how differently would we react if someone would say "I love the smell of Zyklon B in the morning"... 
The Germans generally deal with the horrors of their ancestors in a very mature and responsible way, it's an integral part of their education. That is much more than what can be said of the Americans -- that's one point where that kid isn't completely wrong...
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Bereta_Eder
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Don't forget about the american sponsoring of dictatorships and of course Iraq.
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C0ckney
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Big Up The Macedonian Massive
Apr 2000
time: 05:24
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as if we could with you around paik...
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MrFun
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of Iowa
Nov 2000
time: 23:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Locutus
Yes, because napalming 4 million civilians is a very civilized thing to do
Obviously it's not even on the same level as the Holocaust, but you said she was a high-schooler? 15-16 maybe? Can we really expect her to know the difference? If she was a well-educated grown-up maybe... and as others have said, Germans are very well educated in this respect.
Either way, the Holocaust was the darkest hour in the history of mankind and Vietnam or any other war doesn't compare, there's no doubt about that. But that doesn't mean make every other war the epithomy of all that is good and right. The Americans did commit horrors in Vietnams, just because the Holocaust was worse doesn't make that any less true. Americans ought to be ashamed of what their countrymen did in Vietnam, just as the Germans should be ashamed of WWII, and as the Vietnamese should for their countrymen (and as such pretty much every nation has something to be ashamed of -- I feel I'm more a citizen of the world or Europe than of the Netherlands, but I feel deeply, deeply, deeply ashamed of how my fellow countrymen stood by and did nothing -- and in a way even assisted -- the Serbs during the massacre of Screbrenica, for one thing).
But in reality the only thing many Americans are ashamed of with regard to Vietnam is the fact that they lost
When Americans talk about the causualties of that war, they always talk about the 59,000 Americans that died, but I rarely catch anyone talking about the 3-4 million Vietnamese civilian casualties. I also find it extremely disturbing how Americans in Vietnam are usually depicted as heroes and the good guys. The line "I love the smell of napalm in the morning" is generally regarded as a great movie line (even voted best line in the history of cinema according to one poll) and frequently paraphrased in all sorts of context as a heroic thing to say -- how differently would we react if someone would say "I love the smell of Zyklon B in the morning"...
The Germans generally deal with the horrors of their ancestors in a very mature and responsible way, it's an integral part of their education. That is much more than what can be said of the Americans -- that's one point where that kid isn't completely wrong... |
excellent post
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Muad'Dib
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Of The Known Universe
Jan 1970
time: 05:24
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Jesus H MFing Christ
quote:
The Americans did commit horrors in Vietnams |
A couple of isolated incidents, and the perps got what they deserved.
But what a handful of American assh*les did does not even compare, or should be mentioned in the same sentence, to the institutionalized butchery that was standard operational procedure by the Germans.
Get your facts straight, and head out of your ass Locutus.
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Muad'Dib
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Of The Known Universe
Jan 1970
time: 05:24
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As to you, Mr. Fun.
It's called collaterial damage. Stick a SAM site next to a school, and yeah, kids will die. The enemy always tries to weaken your resolve in war thinking that you don't have the balls. But the enemy always gets it wrong.
Americans go out of their way to avoid targeting civilians, to the detriment of our own troops. But when you face an enemy, especially fanactical ones, that cares not for the value of human life and that of their own people. What are you going to do, fight with your hands tied. Because that is exactly what the enemy wants you to do.
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Muad'Dib
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Of The Known Universe
Jan 1970
time: 05:24
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Ludd, may we never, ever, meet.
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General Ludd
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Minion of the Dominion
Aug 2001
time: 05:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Muad'Dib
Ludd, may we never, ever, meet. |
Agreed, I like to keep my distance from raving fanatics - especially fascists ones.
Last edited by General Ludd on 01-06-2005 at 22:59
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01-06-2005 19:34
maybe that was the problem
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