23-06-2005 17:49									#91
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quote: Originally posted by Scriblerus btw I'm very uneasy about the new 3d graphics. Anyone else worried that zooming perspective images make it harder, not easier, to see what's going on around the civworld?

Would you rather have just one hardcoded zoom level (as in taking the current engine and converting all animations to sprites, which is what Civ3 looks like)? I think it is better to be able to zoom in and out (and around ) as you please (and without loss of quality, which was inevitable when using sprites). It allows everyone to set his/her own point of view, instead of being forced to accept what someone else thought was good. I know I tend to use those 3D zoom options wherever available, as they often give some extremely valuable perspectives. I am really looking forward to this feature in CIV.

	23-06-2005 19:52									#92
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quote: Originally posted by GeoModder Thanks for the tip. Tho mine is a GeForce4 420 GO (32 megs). It's on a laptop so...

If my sources are correct it will work on that one also. It may be a bit slow though...

	23-06-2005 20:16									#93
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Cheers!

No problem for running a bit slow, I prefer to play on smaller maps anyway.

	23-06-2005 20:21									#94
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Since graphics cards seems to be the hardest nut to crack regarding Civ4 I found this: http://video-cards.carte3d.com/gpu.php has a comparative chart of around 190 graphic processors. All the specs you ever wanted to know and more...

	24-06-2005 00:18									#95
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quote: Originally posted by GeoModder Cheers! No problem for running a bit slow, I prefer to play on smaller maps anyway.

That's different slowness. To play on huge maps, you need a good CPU so that it could handle the AI turns somewhat fast. However, slowdowns or lack thereof with the video card depend on how much stuff there is to be rendered. Therefore, I'd expect the game to run slower when zoomed out (more tiles to render) and faster when zoomed in so that there is only a handful of tiles on the screen.

	24-06-2005 00:24									#96
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Guess there will still be the possibility to turn off some graphic features.

	24-06-2005 00:39									#97
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quote: Originally posted by Solver Therefore, I'd expect the game to run slower when zoomed out (more tiles to render) and faster when zoomed out so that there is only a handful of tiles on the screen.

You have to choose, you know.

By the way, I see no problem with the zoomed-out thing, as many engines turn details off gradually, as you move the camera away. The things too small to be visible just are not rendered in the zoomed-out view, so it is not as slow as one would suspect. I think it is safe to assume CIV wil use this.

I think the comment about AI turns is more valid. About the only thing that killed Civ3 were huge maps, as the number of objects (even if the engine is very vell optimized) will just exceed any hardware at some point. Perhaps that is the reason why they seem to have made the map size a bit smaller (but, fortunately, moddable )..

	24-06-2005 00:42									#98
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Turning off graphical feautures is indeed an excellent option available in modern games .

	24-06-2005 00:44									#99
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quote: Originally posted by Solver Turning off graphical feautures is indeed an excellent option available in modern games .

Automatically turning them off when zooming out is. Thanks for not twisting my words.

	24-06-2005 00:47									#100
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Automatically turning them off is a must-have feauture with any decent game design. However, turning them off, as in the ability to tweak graphics options manually, is an excellent feauture .

	24-06-2005 05:27									#101
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I have good news.

Having been very annoyed at my integrated graphics card's lack of T&L capability I have been searching for... other ways and have found a program called 3D Analyzer. It can be found here:

http://www.tommti-systems.de/start.html

The program enables to do many things - among them to force software T&L! This could be the solution to the problem. Of course, even if it works, and I have not had a chance to test it on any games yet, it would probably be very slow... but nonetheless, at least there is hope that it might run.

	24-06-2005 06:19									#102
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I have a laptop from 2002 that I have run Pirates on. A bit slow, and with most of the graphical niceties turned off, but very playable. My system is only a Pentirum III 1 GHz, with 512 MB of RAM and my graphics card, laughably, is an original ATI Mobility Radeon with 16 MB of memory.

So there's still hope yet for those like me who refuse to update their systems.

	25-06-2005 00:37									#103
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My main question now is: since the game relies heavily on animations to indicate if a given tile is being worked or not, doesn't this make it harder to know what tiles are being worked if one turns off the animations in order to adjust the game to a lower system?

	25-06-2005 04:34									#104
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hinthint --> city screen!

	25-06-2005 07:42									#105
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quote: Originally posted by GeoModder hinthint --> city screen!

LOL, I had forgotten that there will be a city screen in Civ4...

	25-06-2005 14:20									#106
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quote: Originally posted by LaRusso hum, my laptop has integrated Radeon IGP 320M, 64 MB, total 512. It has no T&L. Processor is 2800 XP-M. What gives, the game does not play at all or it seesaws my nerves?

If my initial experience with Pirates! is any indication, it will crash constantly. I went and got a Radeon 9550 though and now it works fine.

	25-06-2005 14:25									#107
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quote: Originally posted by Solver Yeah, integrated video cards suck . Maybe you will be able to run the game, technically. Some games run with less of what is their minimal requirements - I don't think Civ4 will just refuse to run, although it will probably look like crap.

No, it will probably refuse to run. I had an integrated chip with no T&L when I got Pirates! and the game would start crashing about 10 minutes in and get progressively worse. And Civ 4 will be using the same engine.

	25-06-2005 14:30									#108
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quote: Originally posted by Modo44 I think it is better to be able to zoom in and out (and around ) as you please (and without loss of quality, which was inevitable when using sprites). It allows everyone to set his/her own point of view, instead of being forced to accept what someone else thought was good. I know I tend to use those 3D zoom options wherever available, as they often give some extremely valuable perspectives. I am really looking forward to this feature in CIV.

I agree. One thing that we'll be able to do is zoom right out and once again have a fullscreen map of the world. I really missed that in Civ 3.

	26-06-2005 19:34									#109
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I have ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 128 MB. I guess that one has this T&L technology? I don't know how old that tech is you see. My computer is 3 years old, but the original graphics card was replaced half a year ago by customer service after it broke down, so I guess this card is newer. The old one was GeForce 4 Ti4600, is there a difference then?

	26-06-2005 19:49									#110
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Nikolai, you're well set with that card .

	26-06-2005 20:00									#111
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Good.

	26-06-2005 20:10									#112
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quote: Originally posted by Willem If my initial experience with Pirates! is any indication, it will crash constantly. I went and got a Radeon 9550 though and now it works fine.

okay, i will now expose my stupidity & low level of comp education.
there is no way i can upgrade my integrated card, that is, there is no space to fit a proper card inside the laptop, or even if i manage it will overheat. right?

	26-06-2005 20:39									#113
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quote: Originally posted by LaRusso okay, i will now expose my stupidity & low level of comp education. there is no way i can upgrade my integrated card, that is, there is no space to fit a proper card inside the laptop, or even if i manage it will overheat. right?

Sorry, I've never used a laptop so I know squat about them.

	26-06-2005 23:44									#114
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quote: Originally posted by LaRusso okay, i will now expose my stupidity & low level of comp education. there is no way i can upgrade my integrated card, that is, there is no space to fit a proper card inside the laptop, or even if i manage it will overheat. right?

It depends. You can´t use a card for desktop pc´s, it won´t fit (or run externaly). But you may be able to upgrade your card if you use Dell for instance. But it´s very expensive and tricky since laptop graphics cards are so tightly integrated with the rest of the hardware.

Consult your local computer store for more info.

	27-06-2005 14:00									#115
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Looks like that if you can run Pirates now you'll be able to run Civ4.

While Civ4 might be somewhat heavier in graphic quality, its also turn based instead of real-time ala Pirates. A big difference!

They are keeping a requirements down to be able to reach a large audience. Shame more developers don't work like this... but then graphics are the most important thing for games... right?

	27-06-2005 15:38									#116
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In all fairness T&L is nothing revolutionary new... It´s been added to graphics cards since 2002. Almost every graphics card on the market nowadays have this. AFAIK it is essential to 3D graphics. And it is 2005 now, not 1991. I can understand that the developers of Civ want to "broaden the horizon" so to speak.

It´s all about evolution of technology...

Edit: Since Custodian wasn´t criticising Firaxis in his previous post (I assume...) I´ll make this a general statement

Last edited by Dr Zoidberg on 27-06-2005 at 15:46

	27-06-2005 16:24									#117
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quote: They are keeping a requirements down to be able to reach a large audience. Shame more developers don't work like this... but then graphics are the most important thing for games... right?

Yeah talk about suckers who release things like Battlefield 2... they basically don't want to support computers more than a year old, although it could be ran, probably, even on GeForce 4 Ti.

	27-06-2005 19:59									#118
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quote: Originally posted by Solver quote: They are keeping a requirements down to be able to reach a large audience. Shame more developers don't work like this... but then graphics are the most important thing for games... right? Yeah talk about suckers who release things like Battlefield 2... they basically don't want to support computers more than a year old, although it could be ran, probably, even on GeForce 4 Ti.

I don't understand why they don't make those games more downwards compatible. Seems like shooting yourself in the foot this. Maybe they’ve deals with the graphics developers.

Still I won't be buying it for a good while because of this.

Dr Zoidberg, I was more applauding them actually (should have made that more clear). And I do agree they haven't to support TNT2 and the like. There's a limit in what you can support. Still I do feel when I buy a 3D card it should be able to run games at a good framerate and with a good graphic quality for say at least 3 years. Lots of companies are ignoring this however. Lucky Firaxis is not one of them.

PC’s are the most expensive gaming platform by far already, what do they want? Drive all casual gamers away? There’s a reason titles like Sims / Rollercoaster Tycoon sell so well…. gameplay and compatibility,

	27-06-2005 21:09									#119
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I just read your post briefly before posting, then I read it again...

Firaxis

	27-06-2005 23:05									#120
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Will the game support multiple screen resolutions?