06-06-2005 02:56									#61
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quote: Originally posted by BlackCat Maybe, but the mere fact that they exist is a shame. @Pekka, glad to see that you have recovered a little from your telephonecalls - would hate to miss future stories from SC

don't be silly, we have many more silly laws that we don't enforced. Are those laws a shame as well?

	06-06-2005 03:00									#62
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident don't be silly, we have many more silly laws that we don't enforced. Are those laws a shame as well?

Yes.

Here's it's widely thought that unenforced laws are bad, because they encourage people to think that breaking the law is no big deal.

	06-06-2005 03:04									#63
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quote: Originally posted by Last Conformist Yes. Here's it's widely thought that unenforced laws are bad, because they encourage people to think that breaking the law is no big deal.

Dammit, you beat me

	06-06-2005 03:05									#64
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curfews

	06-06-2005 03:11									#65
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quote: Originally posted by Combat Ingrid curfews

Curfews do have legitimate and valid uses. In neighborhoods rife with drugs and gangs, I think the cops have every right to keep minors off the street after a certain time. For their safety, and the safety of the neighborhood as a whole.

	06-06-2005 03:13									#66
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quote: Originally posted by Jac de Molay Curfews do have legitimate and valid uses. In neighborhoods rife with drugs and gangs, I think the cops have every right to keep minors off the street after a certain time. For their safety, and the safety of the neighborhood as a whole.

Why then set the limit at 18 ? If it was set to say 40 or 50, maybe 60 it would have a greater impact on crime.

	06-06-2005 03:14									#67
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Jac: In that case, the cerfew should be for the gangs. It's just wrong to restrict the freedom for an innocent person.

	06-06-2005 03:15									#68
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Gangs are usually youth organizations.

	06-06-2005 03:17									#69
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OzzyKP is a gang banger!!!

	06-06-2005 03:19									#70
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He's going to make a run for you Hittin' it title, Ted.

	06-06-2005 03:23									#71
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Gangs are usually youth organizations.

Sure, but all youth are not criminal gang members. The police should focus on getting the punks off the streets, to make them safe for everyone else.

	06-06-2005 03:25									#72
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It was a response to BlackCat not you.

	06-06-2005 03:28									#73
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Maybe a little off topic, but has anyone heard if Che has been attacked by the choppers ? It's more than an hour since we last heard from him and that's not normal

	06-06-2005 03:30									#74
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc It was a response to BlackCat not you.

Actually, I agree with Combat.

	06-06-2005 03:33									#75
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quote: Why then set the limit at 18 ?

Because they're minors, and standards of legal protection, prosecution, and enforcement are almost universally applied differently than for adults, almost always in a more conservative direction. They're kids, after all.

It's also an issue of risk management. Keeping minors off the street in specific drug/gang neighborhoods not only keeps young thugs off the streets, but protects other children. It's not like the cops are bearing down on some kid who's coming home from his shift at McDonald. They apply the policy in known high-risk neighborhoods as a precaution to protect all children.

quote: Jac: In that case, the cerfew should be for the gangs. It's just wrong to restrict the freedom for an innocent person.

In high-risk neighborhoods( at least here), drugs and gangs are ubiquitous- the cops can't readily ascertain who's rollin' and who isn't. So they apply a curfew for the safety and benefit of all children.

	06-06-2005 03:48									#76
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Because we know how gangbangers will obey curfew and respect that rule?

If we want to protect other kids, who are the non-gang etc, well basically ones who don't make trouble, well.. I think they are allowed to have the choice to go out or not. If they are afraid or something, they can stay home. If their parents are against kid going out, well, that's the end of it, and just because there's some curfew, it doesn't stop anyone from going out. Trade off being essential violation of individual freedom. Not worth it, but this is just my opinion.

	06-06-2005 03:52									#77
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quote: Originally posted by Jac de Molay Because they're minors, and standards of legal protection, prosecution, and enforcement are almost universally applied differently than for adults, almost always in a more conservative direction. They're kids, after all.

If I'm not wrong, then the age limit in many states for a driving license is 16 - meaning that they are allowed to take control of two tons of steel, glass and rubber, but they are not allowed to take a walk in their neighbourhood after 10 ? In another thread it is discussed that NY is making a proposal that also should have the right to vote, but still risk arrest if they are out after 10.

It seems that in some perspectives 16-18 years are children - in others thay isn't. And when do they really stop being children ? At least not before they become 21 and legally can drink a beer.

quote: It's also an issue of risk management. Keeping minors off the street in specific drug/gang neighborhoods not only keeps young thugs off the streets, but protects other children. It's not like the cops are bearing down on some kid who's coming home from his shift at McDonald. They apply the policy in known high-risk neighborhoods as a precaution to protect all children. In high-risk neighborhoods( at least here), drugs and gangs are ubiquitous- the cops can't readily ascertain who's rollin' and who isn't. So they apply a curfew for the safety and benefit of all children.

My guess is that the curfew are making more damage than good. My recollection of that age is that the forbidden thing was much more interesting than the nonforbidden.

	06-06-2005 03:59									#78
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****ing pigs, eh Che?

Give them a uniform and they think they're Hitler.

	06-06-2005 04:19									#79
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From reading only the first page, I agree with Che and Diss on this one.


Privacy of law-abiding citizens ought to be respected. Shame on Az for not even trying to understand the importance of privacy.

	06-06-2005 05:32									#80
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You guys are a bunch of *******s.

I'm a cop. You hate me? Why? We're just trying to do our ****ing jobs without getting killed. And then we have to put up with **** heads like you guys.

90% of you *******s are so wrapped up in your own **** that you have no idea of what its like on the other side. All were trying to do is keep people safe, including ourselves.

Okay... sorry about the language, and the insults. We are human too and we need to vent sometimes too.

	06-06-2005 05:39									#81
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Che, Diss myself, and others do not hate cops just because we value the idea of privacy.

	06-06-2005 05:47									#82
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quote: Originally posted by Combat Ingrid Sure, but all youth are not criminal gang members. The police should focus on getting the punks off the streets, to make them safe for everyone else.

But how do we tell the difference between gang mambers and lawful youths? You want to know the best way to do it? You won't like it: Profiling.

If it looks like ****, smells like **** and (heaven forbid) tastes like ****, its probably ****.

	06-06-2005 05:58									#83
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun Che, Diss myself, and others do not hate cops just because we value the idea of privacy.

Did I name anybody in particular? Maybe I should.

quote: Originally posted by OzzyKP ****ing cops...

quote: Originally posted by asleepathewheel ****ing hate cops

quote: Originally posted by Agathon ****ing pigs, eh Che? Give them a uniform and they think they're Hitler.

These are just three quotes from this very thread, and I only used the ones that were short and blantant in their hate. The overall impression from this thread is one of negitivity towards police and I think its absoulutly disgusting.

	06-06-2005 06:02									#84
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I doubt you had to give them ID or let them search your bags, che. Maybe you should have challenged them on it for the principle of the matter, if it bothers you.

From time to time, we have these no-go areas in Washington, D.C. for those who don't live in the area as per their IDs. This is normally because there is a specific threat from terrorists. I doubt it's constitutional, but nobody challenges it because of the times we are living in.

You may have to give them your name, on the other hand.

	06-06-2005 06:03									#85
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Even in this particular situation, we are only hearing Che point of view. Nowhere have I heard anyone mention that the area was under a higher security level due to some outside temporary situtation. Additionally, the police in question had already picked up someone with a similar description to Che for some other offense.

For a site that usually boast a high level of liberal "educated" people, you all (okay, most) seem to be very narrow minded.

	06-06-2005 06:11									#86
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quote: Originally posted by Donegeal These are just three quotes from this very thread, and I only used the ones that were short and blantant in their hate. The overall impression from this thread is one of negitivity towards police and I think its absoulutly disgusting.

My apologies for the vitriol. I understand that there are decent cops out there. And I understand that it is a difficult job where you could wind up dead at a simple traffic stop.

What I hate are cops that blatantly profile people. Drivers that get pulled over for not signalling lane changes or not signalling a turn within 200 feet. Would a white person get pulled over for that? I think not. My black and hispanic clients? Of course.

Course, I'm a defense attorney. I read probably 20 police reports a day, so I see things about people being tased and maced without reason. I see the marks on my clients where the k-9 chewed on their leg. I see cases where cops arrest people for the standard disorderly conduct/resisting law enforcement/public intoxication when there is nothing there other than disrespect for the cop. I have a prostituion client set for trial tomorrow where the cop gave the woman money, then let her fondle him, expose herself, and then arrested her. Nice Get yourself somethin somethin then arrest her.

I've dealt with you before donegeal, and you don't seem like that type. For that I commend you.

	06-06-2005 06:14									#87
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quote: Originally posted by asleepathewheel My apologies for the vitriol.

Now... people should just chill

	06-06-2005 06:17									#88
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quote: Originally posted by Donegeal Nowhere have I heard anyone mention that the area was under a higher security level due to some outside temporary situtation.

We don't know that. If che was going thru a roadblock or something, then the police could question him.

However, I read his post to mean he was riding down the street with his bag of kitty litter when he was descended upon by a score of cops.

	06-06-2005 06:21									#89
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quote: Originally posted by Donegeal Did I name anybody in particular? Maybe I should. These are just three quotes from this very thread, and I only used the ones that were short and blantant in their hate. The overall impression from this thread is one of negitivity towards police and I think its absoulutly disgusting.

Well If it looks like ****, smells like **** and (heaven forbid) tastes like ****, its probably ****.

	06-06-2005 06:22									#90
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I think I'm gonna have to agree with Donegael, the cops are just doing their job, enforcing laws that higher up have passed. You have to realise that the cops don't know any of you from a bar of concrete and thus don't know if you are a crim or not. Its not like you have a barcode on your forehead that says innocent or guilty (though give it enough time it might be reality).

So basically lighten up, its only a cop, if you have nothing to fear from your id being shown or bag searched then who cares? Much more important things to care about than that.

Though I must admit curfews are rather an interesting idea. It just seems so wrong, especially because they're state induced ones, parents yeah fine but state???