09-06-2005 12:40									#1
	The Infotrader/Infiltrator Network - Diplomacy plug-in (III) Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

The Diplomacy Part (II) had passed the 500 mark.

Good work keep it going

Diplomacy Thread Part (II) Here

Last edited by Hercules on 11-06-2005 at 00:25

	09-06-2005 14:47									#2
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Was looking at PE and that got me to thinking about a trade with M.

We give NG for them giving us PE.

They still have a while till their NG is done so we would be shortening their research time.

With NG they could go to BE or MMI.

We will be done with MMI before they finish MMI due to the timming of the trade.

ON second thought no.

Their income is to great and the posibility of them getting the CF could exist.

	09-06-2005 20:01									#3
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lets get the CF for ourselves

unless they also agree to go to BE not mmi then we could trade that off...but we would have to reveal we had MMI by implying that they shouldnt waste time getting it

	09-06-2005 20:12									#4
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If we tell them anything they will be able to infer what we have and need.

For this reason I would go for atleast 3 years of not trading.

	10-06-2005 04:16									#5
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

We'll find out fairly soon now the Gaians and Spartans current positions.

	10-06-2005 04:51									#6
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Whoops,

maybe we will hear from the Gaians this turn

Last edited by Hercules on 11-06-2005 at 00:26

	17-06-2005 09:51									#8
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From Spartans:

quote: Might the Data Angels be interested in a straight exchange of Planetary Economics for Mind-Machine Interface? If so, we'll stall our discussions with Morgan on trading them PE, which would let the Angels proceed with the build of the Ascetic Virtues SP We, of course, would still like to build the Cyborg Factory, as we do see that ultimately we will be the faction to stare Yang down to get the Hive out of the game, so the CF is an almost must for us. So any deal would be contingent on the Angels changing your SP build from the CF to the AV, and letting the Federation complete the CF Interested? Colonel Googlie

It is too late anyway for any SP agreement, since we will probably have cyborg Factory next turn.

Something that will probably will keep Spartans really angry: DA having Cyborg Factory.

I would like to point you one thing. As recently an estimation was made how we look like militarily compared to Hive. And we are just completely weak compared to them. And now, which faction is indicated as the leader in military strength? Hive? Nope. It is Spartans.

Time to stop fool around with our weakness. Spartans may hit us any turn now and take our 2 SP. We have to build military and do it pretty fast.

	17-06-2005 19:42									#9
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Yes; as soon as CF is done go military crazzy.

Also got a new letter from Spartans. They still act perplexed as to our decisions on PE and AV.

To the Data Angels:

The Junta is perplexed as to why the Data Angels are unwilling to consider a deal regarding the Ascetic Virtues secret project. As you can no doubt deduce, the Federation will imminently acquire Planetary Economics. While our current agreement with you prohibits us from adopting Ascetic Virtues, there is no agreement between us giving the Data Angels the sole rights to the Ascetic Virtues, nor one prohibiting us from trading the technology Planetary Economics to other factions.

Before we turned to the Gaians and even later to you to research Intellectual Integrity for us, and before our relations with the Corporation deteriorated to war because of the unfortunate SCC Hunter incident, we were in fact discussing a leapfrog with the Corporation to get to Intellectual Integrity and Planetary Economics, so that the Federation could found the Citizen's Defence Force, and the Corporation could build the Ascetic Virtues.

This was attractive to them with its ability to build larger bases pre-hab complex than just size four.

If you insist on prohibiting us from building the Ascetic Virtues Secret Project, the Junta is therefore confident that our refound friends - the Corporation - would be more than happy to buy Planetary Economics from us and with it the ability to adopt Ascetic Virtues.

Frankly, as you can see, there's ltlle likelihood at all that you would be able to adopt the Ascetic Virtues yourselves. Why then do you insist on keeping spurious title to this Secret Project? We assumed it would be a trivial matter to buy back the secret project rights, so to speak. Either you gain something, such as a Global Trade Pact and Cyberethics without having to incur extra costs, or else you gain nothing.

Where lies the problem??

Colonel Googlie

I can not think of a new way to say no then the way we already did. What you say.

	17-06-2005 19:46									#10
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After CF, military and Yang then we may consider AV again I feel.

	17-06-2005 23:20									#11
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We can't change the CF now anyhow. It is built (to be confirmed on opening the turn of course). So we can advise them of that fact after it is confirmed.

Re trading MMI We need to restrict trading as Spartans will get it automatically after 3 other factions have it.

Re AV we don't have sufficient crawlers to build it at the moment anyhow. Maybe when we get AMA we can trade it to the corporation for PE and the AV: at least get a promise from them re the AV.

However I would resist going back on our views re AV and the Spartans unless we could secure a watertight agreement on a future tech and juicy SP. I don't think we need their permission for HSA for example.

The attraction of AV for us and Spartans is the +1 police. It is of less use to the Morgans until they go green.

	18-06-2005 01:01									#12
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Letter to Spartans

Dear Spartans

We thank you for your concern; however our situation has not changed.

ForesterSOF
DA Ambasador

As you can tell I am not much for talking andflowery wording.

	18-06-2005 03:16									#13
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Not much needed for the Spartans, me thinks.

But if flowery wordings are needed, I'm sure capable of putting something together. I just prefer that another Angel transmits/receives interfaction communiquees.

	18-06-2005 12:13									#14
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It would be good to revise the diplomatic standing with Spartans. The last attempt to renegotiate AV put a shadow on our relations, at least from our point of view. Unless you have different view.

Re recent message:
1) they know we have MMI. How? Seeing CF on F5 screen.
2) Would they think we do not instabuild it?
3) Spartans seem to have precise info on our techs. Do they have infiltration?

	18-06-2005 13:43									#15
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I think they saw CF via the F5 screen.

I don't think they have infiltration.

	18-06-2005 13:56									#16
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And I suppose earlier on they could see our tech status by the pact with the PK's, and saw the CF as Herc mentioned in the F5, or calculated ahead while there still was a view on our tech stats.

Are the PK's already infiltrated?

	18-06-2005 14:17									#17
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We have active infiltration:
Hive
Morgan
PK

Through Pact:
Gaians

That foil probe still waits inside the fungus. I think our chances to infiltrate Gaians diminsh fast

	18-06-2005 16:09									#18
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Guess the earlier proposal of a drop probe should be executed fast.

	18-06-2005 19:45									#19
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Looks like I stay the inbetween person.

Since there seems to be no oposition will send the letter to Spartans tonight before work.

	18-06-2005 23:52									#20
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Mid save 2176.

I have not attempted any discussions with the AI but maybe someone should see if Yang would move to treaty.

	19-06-2005 00:10									#21
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I did, no contact established.
And when I demanded his troops to return vendetta brook out.
Zak and Lal are still moaning about having accepted payment for the destruction of the Morgans (For Zak the Gaians as well). Lal could stop hostilities with the Gaians if they stopped first.

	19-06-2005 09:37									#22
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Follow up.

I still dont like giving MMI to Spartans even though we have CF now.

It would give them to much power and knowlege.

Might the Data Angels be interested in a straight exchange of Planetary Economics for Mind-Machine Interface?

If so, we'll stall our discussions with Morgan on trading them PE, which would let the Angels proceed with the build of the Ascetic Virtues SP We, of course, would still like to build the Cyborg Factory, as we do see that ultimately we will be the faction to stare Yang down to get the Hive out of the game, so the CF is an almost must for us.

So any deal would be contingent on the Angels changing your SP build from the CF to the AV, and letting the Federation complete the CF

Oh yea; letter posted earlier sent as reply.

Interested?

Colonel Googlie

	19-06-2005 09:52									#23
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I would tell Spartans directly, that we instabuilt CF, no change was possible.

	19-06-2005 12:38									#24
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And just another thought, not to tell them, but we still do not have Doctrine Initiative, coz they refused to trade it. I think how much withhelding MMI would delay increase of Spartan power. They possibly research this, but when will they have it. They will certainly start to build copters, but if they are behind in this tech we may have more of them. If Spartans would plan taking over of the CF, we better not trade MMI.

It is not that Copters would be used for attacking bases, but clearing the path to our bases.

	19-06-2005 15:01									#25
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Copters will be extremely usefull in any case. The Hive has a shitload of units roaming around, and the Spartans sure have plenty of elite rovers ready to take Hive bases at will.

And I'm with Mart on the instabuild issue. Weren't they too late with their 'request'?

	19-06-2005 15:29									#26
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They were definitely too late. And this may be brought to them very straightforward.

	19-06-2005 19:15									#27
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Dear Spartans

Circumstances:

Compleation of CF was our first priority.

ForesterSOF
DA Ambasador

This letter would help clarify some things; however they will ponder the situation of why we dont offer MMI in trade.

That is something for a later date.

	20-06-2005 01:02									#28
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Been home today. Maniac asked if we would be interested in an alliance with them.
I've asked him to let Googlie sent a proposition.

ForesterSOF, I propose this:

quote: Dear Spartans, Unfortunately the project was already under construction when we received your message, and we could not switch back without great industrial loss. For a trade of MMI or PlanEcon we will come back to you later. ForesterSOF DA Ambassador

	20-06-2005 01:04									#29
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We'll know directly when Morgans receive PlanEcon from them. Is there in fact any special reason for us to continue the MMI-PlanEcon trade once the Spartans trade it to the Morgans?

	20-06-2005 04:24									#30
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We could not resign from CF. It was instabuilt before they asked us to resign from this SP. Turn was ended and forwarded. Only events independent from us, like unexpected drone riots or mindworms occupying mineral tiles could stop completion of CF. It is different than "we did not want" it is "we were unable"

Spartans wishing alliance with us? We decided to go with Gaians in secret for now. And for good reason of having them in the end game, than militaristic Spartans, who may freak out any time. See AV case. They really roleplay "bad" guys. I would be assertive and say no to long range alliance. Pact for limitted time might be good. It depends.