25-06-2005 09:35									#61
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither You mean the capitalist who thought Canada had enough drugs to supply everyone in the US who wants cheap prescriptions? What a moron.

Hey, if they're willing to ship us drugs only so they can buy them back from us at a higher price that's their business.

	25-06-2005 09:37									#62
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quote: Clinton still would have won the electoral college vote by 281 to 257. But such a result obviously would have made the race a good deal closer.

Also you have to take into account that a third of Ross Perot's support came from people who would not otherwise have voted.

	25-06-2005 09:39									#63
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse Hey, if they're willing to ship us drugs only so they can buy them back from us at a higher price that's their business.

The only fly in that oinment being the willingness of patent holders to ship drugs to Canada to have them shipped back at prices undercutting their home market...

No doubt it was a good deal for Canadian internet pharmacists, for a time.

	25-06-2005 09:42									#64
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Now, I really want to know how a serious candidate for the presidency thought Canada was a viable solution to the cost of medicine in the US.

Short answer. He wasn't serious. He was a moron.

	25-06-2005 09:42									#65
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If they stopped shipping to us then we'd simply break their patents, and the Americans wouldn't do **** about it, if they were the ones doing the buying...

	25-06-2005 09:43									#66
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Ben. That avatar is awful

Go back to your roots, Master Kenobi.

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	25-06-2005 09:44									#67
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or...

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	25-06-2005 09:44									#68
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse If they stopped shipping to us then we'd simply break their patents, and the Americans wouldn't do **** about it, if they were the ones doing the buying...

Heh. In your dreams. There's this thing called NAFTA, and there are these things called courts. You think Pfisser would blink at millions to sue the GoC into oblivion in Toronto?

	25-06-2005 09:44									#69
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Now, I really want to know how a serious candidate for the presidency thought Canada was a viable solution to the cost of medicine in the US. Short answer. He wasn't serious. He was a moron.

Both were.

The political theatre in the US is sucking the brains out of the presidency.

	25-06-2005 09:46									#70
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They spend so much time doing he said she said that they never get around to seriously discussing policy. The more of the US system I watch on CSPAN the worse my opinion gets of it.

	25-06-2005 09:46									#71
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse Both were. The political theatre in the US is sucking the brains out of the presidency.

Point.

	25-06-2005 09:47									#72
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But then you have to consider our own political culture.

Glass houses are not good launch platforms for stones.

	25-06-2005 09:48									#73
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I'm trying to do the math to see if they actually take into account that 1/3 of his support does not come into play,

quote: Exit polls showed that Perotís voters apparently split their preferences between Clinton and Bush nearly equally, although approximately a third of them likely would not have voted without him on the ballot. Yet the very fact of the Perot candidacy might have changed the nature of which major party candidate Perot supporters were likely to support. Furthermore, the Perot vote didn't split equally in every state.

Nearly equally is a big difference than precisely equal. Where's the percentage Boris? In this sort of thing, the percentages make a significant factor, as does the assumption that the Perot vote splits equally in every state. We don't know whether a significant amount of the dem support for Perot was concentrated in urban areas, (a reasonable assumption), while the republican support for Perot was spread out in rural areas across the country.

So saying half of the total Perot democratic vote ends up in NY and in California, means that Perot's republican support cost Bush the election.

	25-06-2005 09:48									#74
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Considering that Bush beat out Kerry who got a higher percentage of the vote than Bill Clinton ever got, yes I do believe he wins in a two party race.

Wrong again. Of course, anyone who knows a thing about politics knows that would be irrelevent even if it were true, since Kerry and Clinton are very different candidates.

Clinton in 1996: 49.2%
Kerry in 2004: 48%

How convenient that you've forgotten the Perot factor this time, after I showed that he drew evenly from each candidate.

Had it been a two-party race, Clinton's popular vote percentage in both of his elections would have outstripped Bush (52-53%)

Also, Clinton won 379 Electoral votes in 1996, and 370 electoral votes in 1992. Bush's biggest total was 286.

Did I mention he's still quite popular in the U.S., while Bush isn't?

	25-06-2005 09:50									#75
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Bush I?

	25-06-2005 09:52									#76
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quote: Ben. That avatar is awful Go back to your roots, Master Kenobi.

Oh, this won't stay up for a long time, but it is a very appropriate avatar considering the championship win for the Spurs.

	25-06-2005 09:54									#77
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Oh, this won't stay up for a long time, but it is a very appropriate avatar considering the championship win for the Spurs.

Please save one of mine. The MacGregor one would look good on you. It just isn't right to have you sporting a non-Jedi avatar – it puts the force out of balance.

	25-06-2005 09:56									#78
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi I'm trying to do the math to see if they actually take into account that 1/3 of his support does not come into play, Nearly equally is a big difference than precisely equal. Where's the percentage Boris? In this sort of thing, the percentages make a significant factor, as does the assumption that the Perot vote splits equally in every state. We don't know whether a significant amount of the dem support for Perot was concentrated in urban areas, (a reasonable assumption), while the republican support for Perot was spread out in rural areas across the country. So saying half of the total Perot democratic vote ends up in NY and in California, means that Perot's republican support cost Bush the election.

Apparently you didn't actually bother to read the analysis.

He lists all the states that Clinton won that could have shifted to Bush without Perot, and Clinton still wins:

quote: Analysis: Perot's vote totals in themselves likely did not cause Clinton to win. Even if all of these states had shifted to Bush and none of Bush's victories had been reversed (as seems plausible, in fact, as Bush won by less than 5% only in states that a Republican in a close election could expect to carry, particularly before some of the partisan shifts that took place later in the 1990s ñ Arizona, Florida, North Carolina, South Dakota and Virginia), Clinton still would have won the electoral college vote by 281 to 257. But such a result obviously would have made the race a good deal closer.

	25-06-2005 10:00									#79
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It is sort of strange that Clinton won so convincingly, twice, and that Perot popped up in both his wins.

While when left without Perot, Gore and then the moron got shot down in flames to... no Eisenhower.

	25-06-2005 10:01									#80
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Correction, Gore didn't get shot down in flames, but he still lost... to Shrub.

	25-06-2005 10:09									#81
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Uh, Boris, if you read my posts I read the analysis. I quoted the same section you quote including the caveats.

	25-06-2005 10:20									#82
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quote: Wrong again. Of course, anyone who knows a thing about politics knows that would be irrelevent even if it were true, since Kerry and Clinton are very different candidates.

And Bush Jr is a war president, and pwns Bush Sr. Just because Clinton could beat Bush Sr. in peacetime, doesn't mean that he is going to retain the 53 percent, even including the percentage alotted from Perot, against Bush Jr.

Kerry did well to get 48% percent against Bush in 2004, also accounting for population growth, and the increase in voter turnout. To suggest that Clinton could have done better than Kerry is far from certain, given the political climate. After all, it was said well before that Clinton made a good peacetime president, and a poor wartime one.

quote: Clinton in 1996: 49.2% Kerry in 2004: 48%

Ah, I didn't think he was quite that high in 1996. You are quite right Boris and I have to amend my statement.

quote: How convenient that you've forgotten the Perot factor this time, after I showed that he drew evenly from each candidate.

All things considered, since Shrub did beat the Gore/Leiberman ticket in peacetime, I don't see Clinton winning in wartime.

	25-06-2005 10:23									#83
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You're not putting enough stock into the man that is Bill Clinton.

Wartime or Peacetime, he will own GWB not only on policies and knowing the facts (Like Kerry did), he'll also win over the crowd BIG time.

GWB wouldn't come close to Clinton in any of the debates they'd have.

Plus, by the time 2008 roles around, if we're still in Iraq, there's no way the wartime president (who, btw, started the war) would win.

And I feel, personally, that Rove would be in a quagmire. How much personal **** can he dig up that we don't already know?

	25-06-2005 10:27									#84
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither But then you have to consider our own political culture. Glass houses are not good launch platforms for stones.

Either Harper or Martin (or Chretien, for that matter) would wipe the floor with Bush or Kerry in a debate...

	25-06-2005 10:29									#85
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Clinton or Nixon might give them a run for their money, though.

	25-06-2005 10:31									#86
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse Clinton or Nixon might give them a run for their money, though.

Kennedy would eat them all alive. I understand he was just a debating machine and few people could best him when he was in proper form. I mean Nixon was known as a good debator but Kennedy still handled him fairly well.

	25-06-2005 10:32									#87
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse Either Harper or Martin (or Chretien, for that matter) would wipe the floor with Bush or Kerry in a debate...

They are not the only parts of the culture.

Used to be a PM could lose an election by defending a round of patronage appointments in a debate and getting labeled with it.

Now? Now the PM can be a thief leading a thieving party and his poll numbers stay quite healthy. The poll numbers of the people who want to get the thieves into an election are the ones that plummet.

We shouldn't be giving any lectures for a while.

	25-06-2005 10:34									#89
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Kennedy would eat them all alive. I understand he was just a debating machine and few people could best him when he was in proper form. I mean Nixon was known as a good debator but Kennedy still handled him fairly well.

That's not what the people who listened to the radio said, from what I heard.

	25-06-2005 10:35									#90
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse

Is that a Mexican siesta you are undertaking?