09-07-2005 05:18									#1
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Who should the leader of the Russian Civ be? Please pick two, because I'm hoping they'll be one of the two civs to get a second leaderhead.

	09-07-2005 08:21									#2
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I want Stalin if for no other reason than his sexy mustache.

	09-07-2005 09:21									#3
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quote: Originally posted by ixnay I want Stalin if for no other reason than his sexy mustache.

I went with Ivan IV and Peter I due to their charming personalities. I'm surprised not to see Kerensky or Ras-Putin.

	09-07-2005 10:33									#4
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Ivan IV and Peter I. Both of them were important Russian leaders, and both to an extent represented different aspects of Russian growth.

	09-07-2005 15:16									#5
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Nevsky and Lenin.

IIRC Nevsky was one of the earliest Russian leaders, and Lenin sure did a good job on changing the face of this country.

	09-07-2005 15:27									#6
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Peter or Catherine the Great and Lenin.

Rurik is too unrepresentative- you need the Asiatic element in Russian culture and identity mixed in too.

	09-07-2005 15:39									#7
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Stalin off course, I loved playing against him in civ1. Every story needs it's bastards, that is why leaders like Stalin are needed in civ4. You need extreme aggresive leaders where the whole world unites against, this gives the game flavor

I think that they should just for each civilization with 2 leaders take the 2 most known leaders. It is much more fun to play against well known and big leaders then against some unknown ones, even if the unknow ones where actually the real big leaders. The only exception I would make would be for germany, because of obvious reasons. I think that in Russia it's case Stalin and Peter the great are the 2 most known leaders in the west.

	09-07-2005 20:44									#8
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quote: Originally posted by kolpo Stalin off course, I loved playing against him in civ1. Every story needs it's bastards, that is why leaders like Stalin are needed in civ4. You need extreme aggresive leaders where the whole world unites against, this gives the game flavor I think that they should just for each civilization with 2 leaders take the 2 most known leaders. It is much more fun to play against well known and big leaders then against some unknown ones, even if the unknow ones where actually the real big leaders. The only exception I would make would be for germany, because of obvious reasons. I think that in Russia it's case Stalin and Peter the great are the 2 most known leaders in the west.

Why not Ivan the Terrible? He was a horrible, brutalizing despot, and he's as well known in the west as Peter the Great.

	09-07-2005 21:00									#9
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Ivan Grozny and Peter or Lenin. Ivan is a conqueror, and Peter/Lenin are both ideologists and builders more than conquerors.

	10-07-2005 01:01									#10
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Catherine II and Stalin. I'm near confident these will be the Russian Civ4 leaders.

	10-07-2005 02:55									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Novaya Havoc Catherine II and Stalin. I'm near confident these will be the Russian Civ4 leaders.

I really doubt that Stalin will be in it. The same stigma that keeps Hitler out of Civ has kept Stalin in out since Civ1.

As for the others, though my preference is Ivan the Terrible and Peter the Great, I wouldn't object to Catherine the Great or Vladmir Lenin.

	10-07-2005 09:58									#12
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Lenin.

	10-07-2005 10:43									#13
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I'd agree with Lenin except that Stalin hijacked his revolution and twisted it into what we know today. From a revolutionary standpoint Trotsky would have been a better successor to Lenin.

	10-07-2005 12:09									#14
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Vladimir Ilyich!

	10-07-2005 12:13									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Vince278 I'd agree with Lenin except that Stalin hijacked his revolution and twisted it into what we know today. From a revolutionary standpoint Trotsky would have been a better successor to Lenin.

Lev Davidovich!
I used to be a trotskist (trotskyst?) in my youth...

	10-07-2005 12:37									#16
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Who voted for Nicholas?

	10-07-2005 21:19									#17
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Boris Godunov, of course.

	10-07-2005 21:31									#18
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Stalin.

	10-07-2005 21:56									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Boris Godunov, of course.

Might I ask why?

	10-07-2005 22:50									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker Might I ask why?

It's not just a pretty name.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Godunov

quote: That Boris was one of the greatest of the Russian tsars there can be no doubt.

	10-07-2005 23:39									#21
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I don't know why everyone keeps saying Ivan IV. Why? It's such a "Russian Barbarian" stereotype, and to me is not indicative of Russia in the least. So St. Basil's was built under his rule and he was violent. Meh.

I mean, come on. I see Alexander I, Kruschev, Gorbachev, and even Elizaveta as being more Civ-worthy than Ivan Groznii.

	11-07-2005 00:15									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov It's not just a pretty name. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Godunov

Oh, I thought you were responding to my post, saying that you were the one who voted for Nicholas II.

	11-07-2005 03:25									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Novaya Havoc I don't know why everyone keeps saying Ivan IV. Why? It's such a "Russian Barbarian" stereotype, and to me is not indicative of Russia in the least. So St. Basil's was built under his rule and he was violent. Meh.

Well, he was violent. Which is why he's a nice contrast to the builder Peter Velikiy or Ekaterina .

Oh, and I love it when people try to get Russian usernames and do it wrong .

	11-07-2005 04:17									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Solver Well, he was violent. Which is why he's a nice contrast to the builder Peter Velikiy or Ekaterina .

No kidding. If the goal is to have famous, recognizable leaders for civs, and also to have leaders with different, possibly contrasting personalities, Ivan the Terrible is an ideal choice as an antihero to Peter or Catherine. Stalin is not going to happen. Lenin could, but Peter is the most favored choice, at least by Apolytoners.

	12-07-2005 04:33									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Solver Oh, and I love it when people try to get Russian usernames and do it wrong .

:P Novaya was intentional. Sounded better than "Novii," even if grammatically incorrect.

	13-07-2005 12:10									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Novaya Havoc It's such a "Russian Barbarian" stereotype, and to me is not indicative of Russia in the least.

Like Stalin?

	13-07-2005 19:53									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Novaya Havoc :P Novaya was intentional. Sounded better than "Novii," even if grammatically incorrect.

Because you should write it like Noviy, Novyj or Novij instead of Novii which is a really weird way to transliterate .

	13-07-2005 19:56									#28
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Peter I and Yosif Stalin - they both made Russia (USSR) "jump" in power.

(no others from that list achieved such an improvement in Russia's relative power than those two)

EDIT: and they're also well recognisable

	13-07-2005 20:00									#29
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Ivan the Terrible did also increase Russian power. Not in the same way as Peter, but he did.

Stalin didn't increase USSR's power. Well, the military power skyrocketed, of course, but the Soviet economics weren't exactly good at that time.

Maybe we can mod in Kalvītis as the Russian leader .

	13-07-2005 21:12									#30
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quote: Ivan the Terrible did also increase Russian power. Not in the same way as Peter, but he did.

He did, but at less extent definitely and the effect of his rule was felt on less areas of Russia's life.
Peter I wanted (but did not succeed) to change Russia into Western-type country. His reforms and efforts stretched far more than those of any of other tsars.

quote: Stalin didn't increase USSR's power. Well, the military power skyrocketed, of course, but the Soviet economics weren't exactly good at that time.

Well, okay I probably gave a too unclear argument for this.
Stalin practically made USSR as it was seen after that almost up till "perestroika".
Before him USSR was more democratical, less totalitarian etc. etc.
He practically made a system which could hold all the wast empire together and that was his main achievement.
It is of course arguable, but it was he who made USSR stand against USA as the opposing superpower.

He was quite a strong person himself (at least till he get up to the zenith of his power), probably the nemesis of Churchill in his determination.

quote: Maybe we can mod in Kalvītis as the Russian leader

He better be named Ruksītis or Piggy for the english speaking, it will be more recognisable..