21-07-2005 01:25									#31
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So ... the main question remains: where to send our first explorer?

	21-07-2005 03:18									#32
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As MOW, and as we built the worker first, our first scout will be used to scout the local area to decide upon our future city sites.

He will go south along the road to the mountain, thence based upon what he sees, will go north towards the game tile to explore that area (likely city #2 to use the game). It will, of course, depend on what is found. For example, if there is a goodie hut, he will go for that, if there is a Lux, for that, etc etc.

As he will end up to the NE of Apolyton, he will continue going east to attempt to discover if we have a neighbor (the most likely location based on our position on the world map).

Scout #2 will explore those areas around apolyton that have yet to be explored, including likely city sites, and then will head south west to discover the ocean (again, likely location based on our start and what we see already) and any other neighbors we may have.

Scout #3 (if there is one) will be divoted to filling in anything that has been skipped over by our first two scouts.

Hopefully, we are close to the ocean and can pop out a currach quickly. Or, even better, near horses and can pop out a chariot or horseman for exploration purposes.

	21-07-2005 03:30									#33
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Still in favor of going south (to the mountian is a great idea), but by the time we could get him back to explore N for city locations, we'll have built EW #2. Might as well save some exploring turns by using him instead and letting the first one continue south...to, ah, meat people....

	21-07-2005 05:04									#34
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First scout should go south in an attempt to meet other civs and find huts before they do. Second enk should scout for city sites.

	21-07-2005 06:31									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Donegeal Still in favor of going south (to the mountian is a great idea), but by the time we could get him back to explore N for city locations, we'll have built EW #2. Might as well save some exploring turns by using him instead and letting the first one continue south...to, ah, meat people....

I agree, especially about the first explorer continues south. AND about to "meat" people...

	21-07-2005 06:42									#36
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2nd I wanted to keep at home as it will be turn 11. 3rd will not be available til turn 14. (I am guessing as to the times, but that should be close). That is a very dangerious time for if we have another city that is only 10 turns from our home (as has happened to me in quite a few so called Balanced PBEM's) then they will have a chance of seeing our capitol without good defence on or about turn 14. Therefore, I want to play it conservative and keep him close to home and close to fort city #2 if necessary. If we want to play things more risky, fine. Easy to do. But I hate the idea of being wiped early.

We should figure out what we want to do with our homeland defense relative to scouting. At the beginning, this will be a tricky balance. I lean more towards higher defense and less scouting.

	21-07-2005 08:24									#37
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I agree with keeping the second Enkidu at home, while sending the third out to scout. What I don't think is wise is to send the first one on a circuitous route.

Let's send him the direction in which we think we have the best chance to find another Civ and generlaly keep him on that route unless there's a nearby mountain or hill on which he can divert one tile to get a better view of his surroundings.

	21-07-2005 08:40									#38
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I disagree. As we will be REXing like Rabbits, we need to have a solid understanding of our surroundings, so that we can properly plan for city placements.

We don't need to be placing a city on a tile that we find out is just 1 tile away from Coastline. Nor on a Bonus Grassland. Nor too far away from a nearby Lux.

I still say, that we send the first Scout along the River, then circle around southward, on the east side, then move to look for someone to the south.

The Second can go to the Mountain that is 2-2-1. then circle back around northwards on our left side.

E_T

	21-07-2005 09:50									#39
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I thought we'd have 4-5 Enkidu before our first settler is even built? How many turns till the first Settler in your Sim E_T? Can't the second Enkidu Scout find a suitable site for the first, second and even third cities?

	21-07-2005 11:40									#40
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we will build a granary before the settler is started - this means many turns for exploration

	21-07-2005 12:32									#41
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quote: Originally posted by BigFree I thought we'd have 4-5 Enkidu before our first settler is even built? How many turns till the first Settler in your Sim E_T? Can't the second Enkidu Scout find a suitable site for the first, second and even third cities?

It's not as much as the first, second or even 3rd cities, it's the rapid ones after that. With slow movers, it will take time to move them around and cover enough area to get a good look. We want to stay well ahead of the settlers, with the explorations.

quote: Originally posted by ormuzd we will build a granary before the settler is started - this means many turns for exploration

with the chop and rapid growth, the granary will be finished much sooner than everyone will expect. And the settlers will be shortly afterwards.


E_T

	21-07-2005 13:47									#42
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It's quite important to go and meet people ASAP.

It's unfortunate that the river source is so close by - I would have liked to place a good city south of us that is on that river, but it seems impossible to do.

It's fortunate, however, that to our east, we have both the Game and some Hills, providing us with a nice view over the area. I think a second scout or even the warrior guarding our first settler should be able to map that area before settling it.

	22-07-2005 21:32									#43
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The above, from what little we currently know, is our exploration paths. This will, of course, be heavily modified by what we find out there in the Civ world.

Based upon what we know of how maps are typically generated and our starting location, our neighbors should be encountered by going into the Blue and Green directions.

Going into the Red direction will expose the most land around our capitol the fastest. It will also probably be a dead end as we expect to find the ocean in that direction. The same will also be true of the Yellow direction.

Cyan is shown to complete the direction our explorers will travel in, and at this time is the last of our choices (although it will probably be direction scout #3 will take as we will want the city sites shown for our REX period).

Based upon feedback so far, I recommend the following:

Enkudu #1 will go Red (this will find good city sites the fastest). He will be built on turn 9, will reach the first mountain that turn, and then will have his continuing route determined by what he finds. He may switch to a Blue route at that point.
Enkudu #2 will leave Apolyton to go in the Yellow direction, but only to the 2nd hill, where he will turn around and become our first defender. He will be built around turn 11, and will be fortified at home on turn 15. This may change depending on what he finds, in that #3 may stay at home and #2 continue exploring.
Enkudu #3 will go Green. This will discover our home land, including city site #2 near the game, and as we know is the most likely location for our closest neighbor. This means that we will be putting off our contacts early by setting up our MOI for our REX pattern.

Currently, there are no further plans to build additional Enkudu’s, and thus this is the end of our exploration planning. Our current plans call for a granary then a settler. After that, there are no plans.

In my opinion, it is much more important to spend the first 15 turns of exploration finding our first 2-4 city sites rather than meeting our neighbors. I hate using our settlers as explorers.

Please discuss.

	22-07-2005 21:54									#44
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quote: Originally posted by GodKing Based upon what we know of how maps are typically generated and our starting location, our neighbors should be encountered by going into the Blue and Green directions.

Why do you come to this conclusion? We only know we're in the northern hemisphere, right? So south seems more likely than north, but I can't say anything about any west-east difference.

quote: Originally posted by GodKing Going into the Red direction will expose the most land around our capitol the fastest.

Agreed, but I'm not sure this will reveal the most valuable land for city #2. That game tile near the river sure looks attractive. We're building 3 Enkidus before the settler, right?

I recommend:

Enkidu #1 will go Blue, combining the advantage of revealing land with the fact that our neighbours are more likely to be south.

We can then wait for what the border expansion reveals to us, before we decide on #2 and #3.
When will the borders expand, compared to the completion of the Enkidus?

Another likely move seems to be E-E-N (exploring both hills around the Game in the east) before turning back.

	22-07-2005 22:10									#45
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quote: We only know we're in the northern hemisphere, right? So south seems more likely than north

Ergo moving Enk1 21 seems best, then decide after that, as 13 tiles of FoW will be uncovered.

Enk2 is not completed until the border expands, so any decision now may have to be changed. However, moving 66, to see from the hill, then 8 to look over the land around the Game seems most prudent. Though as I said earlier, it may have to be changed in the future anyway.

	22-07-2005 23:15									#46
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What Krill said.

	23-07-2005 01:14									#47
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it is risky to explore with the 2nd.
it is possible that the first enemy will be at our border by turn 13?
5 turns building warrior
11 tiles minimal distance to next capitol (is this true?), diagonal tiles count 1.5=>11/1.5=8 turns

5+8=13turns

we will build our enk3 in turn 15

so the 2nd enk might have to stay home.
the 3rd should definitley defend our capital!

the MM plans also say enk 3 shall defend our capital (happiness)

	23-07-2005 01:19									#48
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

The 3rd Enk is built 2 turns after the 2nd Enk, so if nobody is at our borders by the turn the 2nd Enk is built, it is safe to send out the 2nd Enk.

	23-07-2005 01:29									#49
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If we send the second Enkidu out, will that not mean two turns of lux slider going up? Just asking.

	23-07-2005 01:31									#50
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yes, it does, but I took that into account in my build queue, by moving the Enk out of the city.

	23-07-2005 01:52									#51
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But why would we do it? Would it not be better to keep that Enkidu in the city, and go exploring with the third one instead? The cash would be in store for sure, while the two turns of exploration do not guarantee much. Yes, that is only two turns of better income, but hey, this is the MM-lovin' poly, right?

	23-07-2005 06:31									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Modo44 But why would we do it? Would it not be better to keep that Enkidu in the city, and go exploring with the third one instead? The cash would be in store for sure, while the two turns of exploration do not guarantee much. Yes, that is only two turns of better income, but hey, this is the MM-lovin' poly, right?

I agree with you!

	29-07-2005 08:35									#53
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Note: Will edit in a picture within 24 hours of this post.

to GK:

There is Jungle to our South. And no Hills/mountains (that we can currently see) in that direction.

I can see a Hill that is 1-4-4 from EW on Mountian. Can I get you to move the Explorer to that, before going south?? It will help with future Domestic plans.

to Everyone else: Please Discuss.

E_T

	29-07-2005 08:51									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Krill yes, it does, but I took that into account in my build queue, by moving the Enk out of the city.

Just to say this:

Leaving it in the city (and sending 3rd out) will allow us to have 2 more gold at the end of IW. BUT before our first city is built, we will spend down to 2 Gold (in treasury) and will NOT get over that before IW is finished.

This is critical to this decision: If we get a EW from a Hut, that will almost definately sure (unless it's very late in IW research), delay IW by AT LEAST one turn. That extra 2 gold might make a difference as to what turn we actually do get IW (and later techs).

Please discuss further, we have 4 3 more turns (as of this post) before MoW & Consuls have to decide.

E_T

	29-07-2005 08:53									#55
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And on the other hand, 2 more turns of exploration, to look at our local area and figure out our City placements is also good.

At this point, both arguments have equil merit.

E_T

	29-07-2005 10:31									#56
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quote: Originally posted by E_T Note: Will edit in a picture within 24 hours of this post. to GK: There is Jungle to our South. And no Hills/mountains (that we can currently see) in that direction. I can see a Hill that is 1-4-4 from EW on Mountian. Can I get you to move the Explorer to that, before going south?? It will help with future Domestic plans. to Everyone else: Please Discuss. E_T

I'd go 2-2-4 to scope out the area SE of the spice and then 4-8 to jump up on the hill to see what can be seen.

Cast the net widely, and see what we may catch.

	29-07-2005 18:18									#57
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If we move W, onto the Spice, would we see the hill?

We need to make a choice between (roughly) SW and SE. I'd say from the minimap that there may be a civ SW of us...

	30-07-2005 02:41									#58
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After reveiwing the screen shot, I agree with ET in the direction to take. I have added orders to go 1,4,4 to the hill (subject to change on what is discovered). This will expose the most land while getting to the hill the fastest. Decision on where to go from there will be made on what is discovered, but will probably head in a generally southern direction.

	30-07-2005 02:47									#59
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Going in one of the non-main compass directions doesn't seem like a good idea to me. N, W, E, S expose more land faster than NW, SW, SE, NE.

	30-07-2005 02:48									#60
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I would suggest that we go 44 first, and then decide to move either 1 or 8, to either the hill or mountain respectively.